Putting 17 year old dog through surgery

[joanwinifred]

My friend has a 17 year old dog who has been sick for a long time.

The dog cannot walk, soils herself regularly, howls constantly and has no quality of life as far as I'm concerned.

However, my friend - and even more shocking - the vet put the dog through a massive surgery today.

The dog has made it through, and is recovering but the vet says they don't expect they'll make it through the night.

My friend is refusing to have her dog put to sleep and give it some dignity.

I've had dogs all my life. I believe they let you know when it's their time, and I believe that it's the kindest thing you can do.

I'm angry with my friend, but don't want to say anything as I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable.

Am I? Or would any of you do this too?

I would be angry with your friend too.

I agree, it's inhumane.

I'd be livid. I'd also be contacting the vet. That's disgusting. Poor dog. Your friend is a cunt.

Okay good to know I'm not being over sensitive. I feel really upset about it, and I'm considering ending the friendship. I couldn't imagine putting my dog through this.

Cruel and selfish of your friend and greedy of the vet.

I think I'd end that friendship, I couldn't remain friends with someone that essentially tortured their elderly dog.

@Baddayatwork

I’m privileged to be a vet, and I always say it’s a privilege that we get to choose when to let our animals go, and relieve their suffering. Obviously it’s very hard for people to make that decision, and even harder when you are emotionally involved. If someone doesn’t want to put their dog to sleep, and there’s something they want me to do, I’m not in a position to force them to have their beloved pet put to sleep. I try my best to show them why it’s the fairer option but ultimately it’s up to them, and mostly this pet is their world. So we have to respect their decision.

Surely the vet could have refused to have done the surgery, and told them either to have the dog put to sleep or to see another vet? I think they had pound signs in their eyes. Vets know we will pay to have anything done for our pets, so I do believe many of them become greedy.

@joanwinifred it’s ethically/morally very hard to refuse to treat a dog. I’m not here to be drawn into a ‘vets are money grabbers’ discussion because I strongly believe a majority (even all of us) aren’t. Veterinary care is expensive. You know that when you get an animal.

If we refuse to treat an animal it’s likely the owner will just go elsewhere, who also may refuse to treat that animal, leaving them in pain or more suffering. We can’t tell an owner to put their animal to sleep, we can recommend/advise/strongly advise but we can’t insist. I’ll go as far to say to people ‘if it was my dog I would do x, y or z’ but no more than that.

Also what a lot of people constitute a major surgery may not actually be that major.

At least this way the dog’s suffering will end, where if the vet refused the surgery and all other vets did too, then the dog would be in more pain? Depends what the surgery was for.

Rather than hanging your friend out to dry for loving her dog so much she can't bear to let him go, speak to her about doing the kindest thing. Of course she should see it's not in the dogs interest to undergo surgery, but love is sometimes blind to what is obvious to other people. Our old Yorkie was incontinent half blind and I'm sure, had dementia. She would howl for no reason, had separation anxiety but would wolf her food down happily and sleep for extended periods. You are not in the position to know how she saw her dog and whether it had moments of happiness with her. You don't live with her so how can you imply every moment was misery? Rather than criticising, maybe support her a bit better?

Oh Baddy made the same point in a more informed way!

Depends what the surgery was a bit.
But sometimes it's very hard to say goodbye to a much loved pet, especially if they had to make a quick decision in the face of an emergency. Your friend needs understanding.
Most vets are well intentioned, and not motivated by money (they would be doing something far more lucrative if so) so please don't hurl insults around unless you know everything that was said.

Poor dog 🐶. I couldn’t do that to a poor animal. Your ‘friend’ is being most unreasonable and cruel to the dog.

Surely the vet could have refused to have done the surgery, and told them either to have the dog put to sleep or to see another vet? I think they had pound signs in their eyes. Vets know we will pay to have anything done for our pets, so I do believe many of them become greedy.
Much as I agree with your opinion as to what you would do in your friends place, I do not agree about the vet. You have no basis upon which to say such a thing - you have no idea why the vet did this, nor what they have told your friend. Even if they don't believe the surgery warranted, they cannot force your friend to do (what you or they) think is the right thing, and having the poor dog hauled around vets until one is found that offers an alternative, and an unfamiliar vet, is not a kindness.

But I wonder - you are very vocal on here. What have you said to your friend? Nothing at all? Something mild? It's easy to be brave with a keyboard - what have you done to try to convince her to do the right thing in your mind?

Yanbu. I also hate people excusing their cuntish cruelty with the reasoning they love them too much. Selfishness, sheer sadism, misinformation or even stupidity might be the reason, but it certainly isn't love.

Ime the vast majority of vets will do their best to convince cunty or stupid owners to put the animal first, but exceptions do exist. And when the owner refuses to follow the advice I wish it was easier to prosecute for animal cruelty on the vets recommendation.

@Moondust001

Surely the vet could have refused to have done the surgery, and told them either to have the dog put to sleep or to see another vet? I think they had pound signs in their eyes. Vets know we will pay to have anything done for our pets, so I do believe many of them become greedy. Much as I agree with your opinion as to what you would do in your friends place, I do not agree about the vet. You have no basis upon which to say such a thing - you have no idea why the vet did this, nor what they have told your friend. Even if they don't believe the surgery warranted, they cannot force your friend to do (what you or they) think is the right thing, and having the poor dog hauled around vets until one is found that offers an alternative, and an unfamiliar vet, is not a kindness.

But I wonder - you are very vocal on here. What have you said to your friend? Nothing at all? Something mild? It's easy to be brave with a keyboard - what have you done to try to convince her to do the right thing in your mind?

The vet was our previous vet. We go to another as our dog was neutered there when we rescued and ever since then had awful panic attacks every time we took him, which I put down to a negative side effect of the anaesthetic, not suggesting they did anything bad to him. So we changed vets, but I do know the vet. I will say we don't pay anywhere near as much as my friend pays, but I always assumed it was because her dog was elderly and sick. But our dog is no spring chicken, although he's healthy thankfully.

Veterinary care is expensive, and I'd pay anything. I'd sell my house to make sure I could pay for whatever my dog needed. He's a commitment. But I wouldn't put him through what my friend is putting her dog through. It's cruel and unnecessary.

I've messaged her now and told her how I feel. She hasn't replied, I don't expect she will. I don't want to be friends with someone who would do this to their pet.

Letting them go to ease their suffering is the final act of love you can show your beloved pet.

This mercy should also be extended to humans but is a whole other discussion.

Maybe people screaming sadist here and saying it's not love, should think, if this dog were their sick child, with cancer, would they really not fight with their last breath to save that child? Even when there is little hope? This is how the friend feels, whether we agree with it or not. To many people their dog really does feel like their child.

@goldenharvest

Maybe people screaming sadist here and saying it's not love, should think, if this dog were their sick child, with cancer, would they really not fight with their last breath to save that child? Even when there is little hope? This is how the friend feels, whether we agree with it or not. To many people their dog really does feel like their child.

Mine is like a child to me too, which is precisely the reason I wouldn't put him through what my friend is putting hers through.

She sounds very selfish. Seventeen is very old for a dog. Even a dog in reasonable health. What is wrong with these people

Don't try and justify it with ridiculous excuses @goldenharvest.

Love is not letting an animal suffer because you can't bare the thought of letting them go. Love is putting them, their welfare, and their needs before your own. Love is making a decision that you know will break your heart, because you'd rather suffer the pain yourself than let them suffer.

Keeping an animal in pain or with no quality of life is exactly the opposite of loving them. Fighting to the end is well and good provided it's your fight, but in these types of situation it's the owners fight, it's the owner making the animal fight to the end. Which is a shitty and vile thing to do to any animal, let alone one you profess to love.

I’m not saying it is right and I never have, just to show a little understanding and common humanity for this poor friend. Of course (as I said) she is doing the wrong thing, but I’ve worked on cancer wards and seen how parents and partners struggle to ‘let go’ of the child.

Not everybody is as clear thinking and lacking in attachment to their animals that they don’t know when it’s time to do the right thing.

I've messaged her now and told her how I feel. She hasn't replied, I don't expect she will. I don't want to be friends with someone who would do this to their pet.

I imagine your friend isn't thinking straight at the moment. Her behaviour is reprehensible but not sure how this will help.

Allowing your beloved animal companion a quiet, compassionate release from pain, is the last kind thing we can do for them.