Thoughts on who is in the wrong here?

[backinthebox]

Perfectly straight but narrow country lane. Thick forest either side and the road is flanked by gorse bushes but there are a few small footpaths made by local walkers. 9am on a winter's morning, sky overcast so not bright sunshine but nothing to impede visibility along the length of the road.

A dog being walked off the lead but with owner very close by steps from in the bushes onto the road. At the same time a car is driving along the road not slowly but within the speed limit, with headlights on, and slows while the dog owner catches their dog by the collar.

The dog owner thinks the car should be driving slower as the car driver cannot tell what might jump out of the bushes at them.

The car driver thinks the dog owner should have their dog on a lead near a road.

Who is in the right?

Brave post. Don’t you know that MN thinks dogs should never be off lead even when they’re asleep? Having said that I wouldn’t walk mine offlead so close to a road.

I'd say a mix of both really.

Yes the dog should have been on a lead but also acknowledge that a speed limit is a LIMIT and not a target and often on country roads it is much safer to be slower as you don't know what is going to jump out at you or even what is coming around the bend ahead.

Dog owner should have their dog on the lead.

He told me I should drive at a speed that could anticipate anything at all coming out of the woods at me.

You might as well just walk than. I had a cat dart out of the hedge straight under my front wheels. Not even in front of my car 🤔. So whatever speed I would have been doing would have made no difference to the cat aiming straight for the wheels.

@NoProblem123

Both are correct.

Dog on lead and car driving slow enough to stop.

It’s not rocket science

It doesn’t have to be rocket science. Cats, pheasants etc sometimes dart or fly out of hedges right into you and not in front of your car for you to be able to stop.

Billben - exactly !

It’s not just the animal you can see, pheasants shoot out of nowhere, rabbits, birds, loose farm animals, horse out hacking, country roads are a minefield yet most are national speed limit.

Dog walker was shocked clearly but in the wrong.

Many country roads have a 60 mph speed limit, it is very lucky it was not one of those as the driver would have found it hard to stop in time at that speed, as the dead foxes, pheasants, badgers along the roads show.

Both unreasonable but the dog owner more so. A car needs to go slow if there is wildlife that can run out in front of you but the dog owner is totally wrong because his dog should be on a lead.

There was a case in France where a dog owner was on a woodland path and had the dog off lead. As they went round a bend they came face to face with horse riders. The dog didn’t bark or do anything to scare the riders but one of the horses reacted and threw the rider.
In court damages were awarded to the rider to be paid by the dog owners insurance because it was decided the dog should have been on a lead.
I am now extremely careful walking my dog and put her back on the lead immediately if I see anyone approaching.
I would never walk a dog next to a road off lead.

A decent driver doesn't just drive well themself - they allow for other people to drive badly, or for pedestrians to be stupid
and careless. So simply doing the speed limit on a narrow country road shouldn't be the long and the short of it, because they should be allowing for the possibility of stupid and careless dog walkers to wander out into the road.

Dog should be on a bloody lead.

To the posters thinking the car driver was unreasonable what exactly was unreasonable? Doing 25mph on a road with a 60mph speed limit, able to stop in time so as not to hit a dog jumping in front of me - which bit is unreasonable? Clearly the dog walker thought I was unreasonable since he swore at me. But driving within the speed limit and able to stop in time, I’m not sure what I’ve done wrong.

But you were going slowly enough to stop, not sure what doggie boy was complaining about

I was going to say both in the wrong as it's common for folk to drive around the country roads here at 40/50mph which is within the legal limit but entirely bloody stupid as the roads are too narrow to pass another car / walker / horse safely if one is lurking on the other side of a blind bend.

However, as you elaborate you were only doing 25mph, you're entirely vindicated - that is slow enough to deal with any unexpected eventualities, generally speaking.

@Oreservoir

There was a case in France where a dog owner was on a woodland path and had the dog off lead. As they went round a bend they came face to face with horse riders. The dog didn’t bark or do anything to scare the riders but one of the horses reacted and threw the rider. In court damages were awarded to the rider to be paid by the dog owners insurance because it was decided the dog should have been on a lead. I am now extremely careful walking my dog and put her back on the lead immediately if I see anyone approaching. I would never walk a dog next to a road off lead.

Exactly what happened to me. Sadly the dog was killed when it ran infront of my car. My insurers sued the dog owner and won

Dog walker is an idiot. In my village a similar situation happened and the dog, startled by the car, ran in front of it. Elderly dog owner ran after it, was hit by the car and died. The car driver, who did nothing wrong, has to live with that memory as do the deceased’s famoly, the emergency services etc. All could have been avoided if dog owner had taken the obvious step of keeping dog on lead when walking on a road.

The dog should have been on a lead, it could have darted into the road at any time and created an uneccessary hazard for itself and any vehicles. It sounds like you were driving at an appropriate speed and were able to stop in time, so I'd say you were fine.

Dog owner is in the wrong.

Dog should be on a lead.

However country roads are hazardous this time of year, deer crossing, the Hunt all over the road. Last week I was driving (slowly) along a country lane and came across a pack of hounds all over the road and hedgerows, no hunt staff in sight although heard the huntsman frantically blowing the horn to call them back! I pulled over with my hazard lights on and waited, about 5 minutes later a rather frantic huntsman appeared on foot, gathered them up (with difficulty) and apologised to me. It’s lucky none were run over. Further up the road lots of riders were crossing (coming out of the woods and jumping a gate into the adjacent field) so I had to stop again! It’s not unusual this time of year in rural areas.

Dog should be on a lead by law. Hate it when dog owners do this, bloody selfish to everyone involved.

The point is you were able to stop.

What an arse of a dog owner!!!!

Anyone who has ever seen a deer hit by a car would understand the need to go slower than most of the people on here think they should. Injured deer in pain, car written off, signs warning of deer, but driver still going too fast.

Many young dead deer at the side of roads.

Have also had to stop suddenly for a dog that dashed out of an open space edged by woodland into a main road, across the road and back again. By the time I had got out of the car and taken a belt to secure his collar he had vanished.

Pheasant trying to fly with a broken wing after a speeding driver hit her.

Just be more careful than you think you need to, dog on a lead if within reach of traffic, drive more slowly than you think you need to, because anything can run out, including children.

Sounds like the dog owner is in the wrong. Isn't it an offence to allow a dog to be off the lead and potentially cause a road accident if a car had to brake/swerve?

The driver's right; dogs should always be on a lead on roads/by traffic. For their safety and everyone elses.