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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not agree with people being charged with public nuisance

29 replies

User5666 · 02/12/2020 08:19

When they attempt suicide in public places. Not sure if I’m allowed to go into any detail but I’m done you can read between the lines.

OP posts:
Ohalrightthen · 02/12/2020 08:24

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Mumdiva99 · 02/12/2020 08:25

If I am reading correctly between the lines....then I am very sorry you are feeling shit. Please do call the samaritans if you need to talk.

I had never heard of what you say. However, it may be used as a deterrent to stop the person trying again in the same way or other people in the future trying the same.

Imagine someone on a railway bridge, who stops mainline trains for hours. Massive massive disruption both at the time and the knock on implications. The numbers of services required are vast.

Nothing takes away from the persons pain, but equally the emergency services have to act in the best interest of the whole community.

Just to reiterate if you are currently feeling suicidal please call someone.

Original poster
User5666 · 02/12/2020 08:34

It wasn’t me I’ve just read a local newspaper article that says a young man was charged with public nuisance. He was clearly very distressed and now has a criminal record.

OP posts:
Mumdiva99 · 02/12/2020 08:38

Someone close to me got a record for assaulting a member of the emergency services whilst having a MH crisis. It really really helped her get her life back on track as she wasn't that person at all and didn't want anything else to stay with her moving forward. Her crisis wasn't a one off and ended up with a long hospital stay....but knowing she'd gone too far did help her move forward with life. It's not always a negative scenario.

SpamIAm · 02/12/2020 08:47

No I agree it's awful OP. Using it to arrest them perhaps if there are no other powers to protect them at that time, but disappointing that they'd actually pursue the charges.

Totally unfair to call it abhorrent to attempt suicide via a method, people are hardly in their right mind when they make that decision.

Original poster
User5666 · 02/12/2020 08:47

Yes but it can stop people getting certain jobs etc. Glad your relative recovered.

OP posts:
Neron · 02/12/2020 09:11

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Daleksatemyshed · 02/12/2020 09:22

Obviously someone trying to commit suicide is deeply unhappy but is it fair to others to end your life in public? Think how traumatic it is for a car or train driver or for passers by if someone jumps from a height, it's certainly not something anyone wants their DC to see.

Original poster
User5666 · 02/12/2020 09:45

I understand the affect on the public but surely these other ways to get people other than giving them a criminal record.

OP posts:
Original poster
User5666 · 02/12/2020 09:45

Help people*

OP posts:
Dyrne · 02/12/2020 09:50

He would have been charged with a public nuisance because that would have been the easiest one to immediately prove. This would have enabled the police to arrest him and take him to a place where he could get the help he needs. It also helps navigate the shit mental health system we have as it sometimes boosts them up the priority list if there’s a record of contact with police. If they hadn’t charged him with something they wouldn’t have been allowed to take him in and get him help, they’d have had to let him go where he could have tried to harm himself again.

“Charged” does not necessarily mean “Convicted” or having a criminal record.

Finfintytint · 02/12/2020 09:52

You usually find that contstant referrals and interventions have been made many times. This will not be a one off leading to a court case. The police will have dealt with this individual many many times.

KarlKennedysDurianFruit · 02/12/2020 09:53

How many times had he done it before? Was it actually a suicide attempt? DH has a case who repeatedly calls emergency services and 'attempts suicide' he has told DH he is in no way suicidal but thinks he'll get what he wants quicker that way (a flat of his own rather than a room in an HMO) because a genuinely unwell housemate he used to have was moved into a supported living flat.

KarlKennedysDurianFruit · 02/12/2020 09:55

@Dyrne that's not accurate, they would've just used a section 136 for care or control, 12-24 hours to get someone into a cell or an assessment bed

Someonesayroadtrip · 02/12/2020 09:57

I'm not fully sure ok this, but i would guess that if someone tried to mill themselves in public and especially if that attempt could have wider reaching implications they would be sectioned, as being a risk to themselves or others.

If they are sectioned then that does come up on a check I believe, unless they agree voluntary. So it would be there anyway.

Having a record isn't a automatic stop to employment though. If you say your record is clear when it isn't then it will be. However most employers are happy to look at it on a case to case basis.

AriesTheRam · 02/12/2020 09:58

I read that suicide is illegal hence the "commiting" suicide term.So in theory if the poor person didn't succeed they could be charged.Not sure how often this happens though.

Finfintytint · 02/12/2020 10:01

Aries, it used to be illegal but not for 50 years now.

AiryFairyMum · 02/12/2020 10:04

The motorway here is regularly closed for hours at a time while people threaten to jump off the bridges. It is the only direct access to key places, including a hospital, and a definite public nuisance as ambulances are delayed.

PizzaForOne · 02/12/2020 10:05

I'm aware of someone who has done this several times stood on a high storey car park, which lead to closure of the bus station below and nearby roads - which demonstrably is a public nuisance.

I believe they were charged and are actually banned from that area of the city or the car parks in question. I suspect this is to act as a deterrent to their behaviour - which I would perceive more as a highly public cry for help, that will mentally disturb/alarm as well as inconvenience general public. I'm sure such individuals would also get support from appropriate mental health services and steered to more appropriate ways of seeking help (e.g. awareness of who they can call as opposed to standing on a car park) and spotting early signs.

Ohalrightthen · 02/12/2020 10:09

@User5666

I understand the affect on the public but surely these other ways to get people other than giving them a criminal record.
At the end of the day though, it isn't really about helping that individual, it's about protecting the public. It's deincentivicing, and it isn't a barrier to further mental health support.
AriesTheRam · 02/12/2020 10:11

@Finfintytint ah ok I didn't know

SleepingStandingUp · 02/12/2020 10:16

I'm sure taking someone who has tried to kill themselves so is arguably in a bad place mentally and then giving them a criminal record so their life is even harder is helping anyone.

Surely it makes them more likely to make sure they complete suicide also go for a more extreme measure / jump instead of being talked down

GeidiPrimes · 02/12/2020 10:18

@AriesTheRam

I read that suicide is illegal hence the "commiting" suicide term.So in theory if the poor person didn't succeed they could be charged.Not sure how often this happens though.
"Committing suicide" tends not to be used anymore.

When it was a crime in the past, the surviving spouse could actually be charged with the suicide. Thank fuck that's not the case anymore.

SleepingStandingUp · 02/12/2020 10:22

@AriesTheRam

I read that suicide is illegal hence the "commiting" suicide term.So in theory if the poor person didn't succeed they could be charged.Not sure how often this happens though.
Decriminalised in 1061 but the language prevails. We tend to use completed suicide in our Samaritans training
SleepingStandingUp · 02/12/2020 10:22

1961