Union Rep - Disappointment!!

[Twendlesham]

I am going through a grievance at work which I instigated, and have the support of my Union Rep, however I have been left wondering what exactly they actually do.

Sure I have been to her to tell her about the progress in my case and she attended the first hearing (I've now gone to Appeal after losing). She read all my case and said it was very good but not at one time did any research, offered up any similar cases, everything she said was 'in my opinion' and 'I would have thought', no concrete facts which surely a Union Rep should be seeking and providing. It just seems a poor service with little input. I've spent hours researching my issue and feel alone in this. I've had to initiate any meetings with her and emails with specific questions have gone unanswered.

I'm disappointed to say the least as it is costly to join the Union and I am wondering if anyone has had similar experience? She did think I would win initially and it was a shock when my grievance wasn't upheld, hence I went to appeal.

So AIBU to expect more input?

I absolutely love the union! I was getting nowhere with a work problem so I spoke to the union rep, he phoned my manager, and my manager immediately did the thing he hadn't done for weeks to fix the problem.

But it really does depend on your union rep. It sounds like yours isn't as proactive.

Is she a workplace rep? If so she is likely to be doing it for free in her own time. Ask for a different rep and appeal.

Which is exactly why I won't join one. I can do the same research and would dedicate a lot more hours to it myself than any overworked representative.

You can ask for someone more senior if it is a workplace rep, they normally have reps at a regional level if the matter is particularly complex.

You are paying for a service if you are paying subs to the union so if you are unhappy complain about it.

Reps are not solicitors.
If you are appealing inside your workplace, then their job is to support you to present your case and is needed access from the Union if you need legal help.

Examples maybe very specific and not applicable to your case. It would be worth asking the reps if they can speak to the FTO full time officer, Union paid official for some support

This depends on the union system you have in your workplace. In my experience, union reps are not trained lawyers. They are just normal employees. So they cannot and should not provide legal advice (it sounds like this is what you want as you are researching "cases"). The job of the Union rep in the grievance proceedings is to provide moral support to the employee (it can be rather daunting to face the management on your own, there is usually several of them and just one of you), and to make sure that the proceedings go in accordance with the agreed workplace procedures and policies. Your rep also probably gets no time or next to no time to do her work (in my workplace, reps have as little as 5 hours a year!).

And I know you are now focused on your case, which must be hugely upsetting. However, the union dues that you pay are not just for casework services. Union membership is not a mere "insurance policy". The main point of the union is collective bargaining. Your union will be fighting for your workplace rights in their meetings with the management on the local and national levels - pay, pensions, working conditions, etc. If you have to go on strike, the union fund will provide financial support that will make up for some of the lost earnings.

Agreed union reps are not solicitors but all unions have access to legal experts. At a minimum I would expect your rep to understand the relevant policies of your organisation and be able to determine if they are compliant with employment law. It doesn't sound as if your rep is adding anything to the proceedings so I'm not surprised you feel unsupported. Good reps turn up to hearings to support you and make your organisation aware that you have access to legal support if they don't play fair.

FOJN, you are right that a union rep should have an access to a full-time union officer (usually in a regional or national division) that will have more legal knowledge. However, this officer again is unlikely to be a qualified solicitor. And union membership definitely does NOT equal access to legal support. Legal support can only be provided by a qualified lawyer.

My experience is that union reps vary vastly. Some would make good managers, some are politically motivated, some are there because no-one else would do it.

You can ask for another rep. My old union had very experienced specialist reps. My husband is a union rep and often finds himself having to defend the indefensible or prolong what is an inevitable outcome. I think you need a second opinion anyway.

PissedOffProf
I assume it must be Union specific. I was a union rep and our union employed it's own legal team so we did have access to qualified solicitors, I thought this was common for most larger unions.

FOJN - I am envious of your union.

I imagine large unions will have some qualified solicitors working for them, but I am not sure to what extent they have the capacity to be involved in individual cases as opposed to helping out with the wider strategic activities. If union membership automatically gave everyone access to legal support, I imagine the membership across the country would be hell of a lot higher than it is now. £20-£30 a month is paltry sum to pay for a solicitor!

On our job reps work individually to ensure policies and procedures were and are being carried out correctly, that safety is the highest priority and that jobs are being protected. They are lay advocates, not legally trained people at all. They can pick holes in how an employee was treated according to company policy. My case was being denied a flexible working arrangement despite my manager not fully exploring with me all potential avenues. He just said No with no reasoning.

As pp have said you could always get another rep. Ring the union office to find out more.

PissedOffProf

I attended a few hearings at the HQ of our regulatory body (union members in serious trouble) and we employed solicitors to represent members there. Sounds like I was very spoilt and still I thought our union could have done better!

Most union reps are awful. I'm an HR Manager and I've sat in so many meetings where the reps could be fighting for their employees so much better. In some cases they've made it much worse.

I am a union rep in my workplace and I think YABU as from your OP it doesnt seem like you understand what our role is.

I am not a trained lawyer (I have a degree in the field of criminal justice which helps with the basics but is irrelevant to my actual job role and not a requirement) nor is a workplace grievance the same as a legal trial. As part of my union initial training we get a 10 day course which includes covering the basics of employment law and ACAS codes of practice but it is not in depth or any form of real legal training.

It is also a voluntary role - I get paid leave for union training and if I am asked to attend meetings/hearings during my working hours then I am paid, but anything else is 100% unpaid. I will always try to support my colleagues as much as possible for meetings, but I have my own work and personal life, and at any ne time you may not be the only person she is supporting in your workplace.

Where I work there are 500 staff and 290 are members of my union. I am currently the only shop steward (there was another but they retired in January and we havent yet found anyone else willing to step up) and just at this moment in time I have 6 different workers who have individual cases I am working on, as well as the general support I am offering to colleagues with regard to the covid 19 situation - we work retail so the laws/policies about CEV/shielding/time off/H&S reporting etc are constantly changing so I have to keep my colleagues updated almost on a daily basis. I cannot and will not spend all of my spare time on just one colleague.

We are not there as any form of legal representation. We are there to support a worker and to ensure that employment law and company policies are followed.

She read all my case and said it was very good but not at one time did any research, offered up any similar cases, everything she said was 'in my opinion' and 'I would have thought', no concrete facts which surely a Union Rep should be seeking and providing.

Why do you think your rep should be doing any kind of research? It is your responsibility to do that - beyond the research into specific legislation.

Similar cases will be irrelevant- workplace grievances are not courts of law and so will be very unlikely to be of use, unless the circumstances are identical, as it can be the smallest of differences that can change the outcome of grievance hearings (eg I had two colleagues who failed an internal age restricted sale test in the space of 2 weeks - one had no action taken and the other was given a final warning and had their annual bonus suspended. The difference in consequence literally came down to the fact that there were 2 signatures missing from paperwork in the first colleague's training file)

Additionally, because we are not legally trained we are not allowed to give legal advice and therefore we have to caveat any advice as being in our opinion/experience or "as far as we can see". If we make concrete claims that are either untrue or not upheld, then that is far more detrimental. We can, and do, look for laws/policies to support your case but cannot give legal advice.

It just seems a poor service with little input. I've spent hours researching my issue and feel alone in this. I've had to initiate any meetings with her and emails with specific questions have gone unanswered.

It is not a service you hire to "take your case" and you turn up and sit there while we take the lead - you are responsible for the content of your case, we are there to provide support, advice and guidance to relevant information/policy/legislation that can help when requested.

The non response to emails is not acceptable, but it is not on your rep to be proactive in contacting you, that is your responsibility (personally, if I'm involved in a case then I will try to make a point of checking in with the colleague between each official stage, but if they want a meeting or to go over their case in detail, it is on them to request that and I will try to make time for that)

I attended a few hearings at the HQ of our regulatory body (union members in serious trouble) and we employed solicitors to represent members there.

If the case has reached the HQ of a regulatory body and members are in serious trouble then they are more likely to be closer to a legal case than a run of the mill workplace grievance and therefore solicitors/legal representatives would be needed.

A workplace grievance, in the initial stages, are not generally legal procedures and therefore solicitors and legal representatives are not usually required until the case is taken to an external body.

Union reps are basically volunteers - someone like you who is willing to help out their fellow employees. Usually very overworked and doing their best. I think you would need to have specific things you wanted her to do and ask her to help with them and if you don't get that help, forward emails between you to your regional union office and ask for help. Unions only bring in the lawyers when necessary so you might just be expecting too much.

I used to be a union rep and it's very common for members to turn against the Union when things don't go their way. Unfortunately protections for employees have been significantly eroded over the past decade and employers can behave in a way that, although undoubtedly unfair, is ultimately legal. The best union rep in the world can't override that.

What you have described sounds extremely similar to what I have experienced. What makes matters worse is the Rep was the branch secretary. He ignored my messages and when I called him to explain the situation he mostly responded with silence. I kept him updated on the situation although it was more of same hardly speaking. When I challenged this lack of advice, he asked me what I wanted him to do. When I replied I need some guidance or help he became passive aggressive and advised me he would change my rep. I felt so let down and taken advantage of. I have spent 15 years paying into the Union and this is the treatment when I need them the most. Feel like they are just as corrupt as the bullies themselves. Utterly disgraceful behaviour.

Escalate it to actual union branch.