To think university is fairly easy?

[watthaduck]

This is not a boast in any way, I am not trying to ruffle anybody's feathers but am genuinely curious if I'm missing something.

So I am at a fairly average university in Glasgow, I was a direct entrant into third year after completing my HND at another fairly average college in Glasgow. I am a mature student (28) and am studying social sciences with a main focus on politics, from there I'm hoping to do my masters in social work.

Anyways, leading up to university, I heard so many people, lecturers included telling me what a shock to the system university would be, how I would be studying constantly, how the workload would be so much more full on than college so I was fully prepared and slightly dreading it.

However, since starting beginning of October we have had 6 assessments for the term, 2 assessments per module which have mainly consisted of 1000 word to 2000 word essays, one assessment we had to complete four fairly basic questions and a presentation. Everyone on the course is freaking out, saying how difficult the workload is and how all the assessments are crammed together whilst me and another girl that have been on the same course from the start genuinely scratch our heads wondering if this is a joke.

I've only had one piece of coursework graded and this was the assessment with the four questions which I got 72 percent, not amazing but was happy with that being my first piece of work. Yet today I was speaking to other students who got 43 percent and said how difficult the work is this year.

At college we literally had about 12 pieces of coursework all within 6 weeks of each other including exams and I was very stressed but always passed with an A.

I guess my question is am I doing something wrong? I am putting in the bare minimum amount of effort to be honest as is my friend as struggling with motivation with it all being online. I've never felt less stress through education.

AIBU to think that people were just trying to scare me about uni? And that it's actually not that hard?

Obviously I understand and appreciate that some courses are harder than others and mine just might be a fairly easy one but I'm just waiting for someone to come out and shout JOKE

@watthaduck

I do hate to speak in tutorials, I hate it with a passion and I don't think it's nice to force students to do so.

So not only are you not doing the reading but you are also not engaging actively with the teaching?

@watthaduck

I do hate to speak in tutorials, I hate it with a passion and I don't think it's nice to force students to do so.

A university education is not intended to be 'nice'. It's often about being challenged to develop and articulate your own thoughts in a variety of formats.

I see it all the time in my workplace. Graduates who are incapable of expressing themselves in interview, communicating cogently in meetings or delivering a simple presentation to their colleagues. A huge disadvantage that cannot be redeemed by their degree certificate, however glowing.

For me both workload and difficulty of my BSc was significantly easier than for A level.

It depends on the course, the university and I think the experience differs a great deal if you are a mature student, as you have the benefit of a bit of life experience behind you.

It depends what you study. My DH studied chemical engineering, I barely even passed my GCSE maths exam so his degree may as well have been another language to me. I studied English literature which was easy to me because I’d always been good at English but DH didn’t ‘get it’ so 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I don’t think it’s fair to say every degree is easy at all, some have bigger workloads than others.

Come back to us when you're writing up your dissertation and compare your stress levels then to your stress levels now!

I did the MA Social work as a mature student with two young children. That was quite demanding- juggling practice placement with M level academic work and parenting and running a home and all that jazz. But I do think being used to juggling multiple competing demands whilst sleep deprived came in useful there :)

The first few months were a shock purely because I was used to being spoonfed work and gently encouraged to hand work in on time etc.

The only time I struggled were because I'm so lazy. My MA on the other hand hit me like a tonne of bricks

@GreenlandTheMovie 1 - I'm not doing law, 2 - I have done many a presentation and worked through my nerves even though it made me ill, 3 - that's a bit silly to assume that just because I am a mature student I should feel comfortable to speak out in tutorials - I don't.

I guess my question is am I doing something wrong?

So you aren't doing any additional reading. You aren't immersing yourself in your subject. You aren't engaging properly with the two-way discourse of university teaching.

I think you've answered your own question, OP.

Courses are different. Mine was 100% exam based. Most people worked very hard during April and May, probably 70 hour weeks or so on average, probably also starting to get fairly serious during say March too, call it maybe 50 hour weeks on average, but during the rest of the year, not so much, usually a fair bit less than the equivalent of a 9 to 5 job.

Mature students who have kids and/or other responsibilties will obviously not be able to backload their efforts like this, so, yeah, I could imagine it being pretty tough going throughout the year.

I don't think anyone I came across in college or uni or any of my friends that have previously went through uni have ever 'immersed' themselves in their subject honestly.

I think many people look at it as just a way to earn a degree. And for those who are claiming it will affect my ability to get a job because my interview skills won't be up to par....well I've done alright so far....

@watthaduck

I don't know how many other ways I could say that I'm sorry that this may come across as a boast. I do not think I'm smarter that any other person not only on my course, but in general.

The whole point of this post is to question whether I am doing something wrong, not other people.

I left school at 15, pregnant, straight into an abusive relationship with an absolutely awful relationship with my parents. I never ever imagined that I could end up in this position in my life where I was achieving what I am.

I was alway told in school that I was smart but just didn't apply myself, I guess I have that same mindset now. I cant just accept that I'm doing well, I am honestly waiting for the catch to become evident.

I'm sorry if I'm offended anyone, not meaning to.

So I've gone and read all your posts. Well done on getting out of the quagmire that you were initially thrust into.

Are you do anything wrong? I would say that any course structure which rewards bare minimal engagement with the reading and tutorials, as you are currently, is 'doing something wrong'. You are not being adequately challenged so you do not really have a realistic impression of your own intellectual capabilities.

But the onus is also partly on you. Put yourself out there in tutorials and see what happens. You said you struggle to express your own ideas out loud, outside of the safe domain of written work. To me, that suggests that you haven't fully assimilated the theories you're coming across into a deeper framework of understanding. You should be able to talk about concepts, spontaneously, respond to critiques and questions from your tutor, and forge connections between different topics.

If you were in a small group tutorial (say with, 2-3 others) and you were expected to contribute, how differently would you approach things? I'm sure you wouldn't just 'skim' the texts so you could give answers. You would feel pressured to do more reading, to develop a more sophisticated understanding of the topics at hand. It's partly a problem with the course structure, partly down to you exploiting it. Not that I necessarily blame you for the latter...but if you're not challenging yourself, don't be surprised if you don't feel challenged.

The change in attitudes within higher education has been interesting since fees became payable - I worked for a while at a private college, providing a vocational degree and we had to treat our students as "customers" because they were paying (before the increase in fees for other universities). As such, we were expected to support them to achieve as best they could - which sometimes felt like we were pretty much handing them the answers on a plate.

I got fed up of people asking me "will this be in the exam?" on every fucking topic I was teaching. But that was what was expected - handholding to the tune of actually wiping their arses for them, or they would complain that we were taking their money but they weren't getting the results they expected.

We still did it - our guidelines for assignments and assessments were comprehensive (and STILL not enough for some!) so it was no actual surprise that most of our students did well. We had regular academic board meetings with QAA to ensure that we weren't just giving degrees away (we weren't, they were satisfied that the testing was rigorous enough) - but they were also, as I said vocational degrees so people generally did work hard because they wanted to.

I certainly don't remember anything like that level of handholding when I was at university some 30 years ago!

University was a breeze. I worked during my uni days and fully supported myself there.

I can't comment on how hard a STEM would be, but I think an art course is hard as creativity doesnt have the answers to find, you have to make them and that can be a real challenge when you havent got the mental energy.

Also, with art you can labour away for hours on something that doesnt work and because it's such a broad subject there are many rabbit holes do go down on quite often emotionally/philosophically charged subjects that it can put you in a spin. Too much free reign isnt always a good thing when you are time restrained!

Depends on the course. You've probably picked an easy subject.

@GreenlandTheMovie

is the former Paisley College of Tech still going as a university?

It's the University of the West of Scotland now, if you please.

You can also do a number of degrees at the City of Glasgow College.

I suppose what I'm wondering is what happens when you encounter a student for whom the course is clearly inappropriate, perhaps because they've been poorly advised about their options. Are you and your colleagues free to approach them and make suggestions for alternative paths or is there commercial pressure from the university to keep bums on seats?

Not an admissions officer but as a lecturer and in my pastoral support role I have those conversations on a regular basis.

My job is to say "this is what we could do to support you, this is what you would have to do, other options are x, y and z". The decision is theirs.

If they do not meet general criteria for moving up to the next year, though, it's not quite as easy. They would be contacted by the senior tutor for a discussion on now to fulfil the criteria, support would be offered and the case would be reviewed by one of the exam boards that meet in the summer.

But that doesn't mean a student can't turn up for my weekly office hour (whether I am their module tutor or personal academic tutor) and say "this really isn't working for me, cory". I wouldn't tell them it has to work- I would try to help them to explore options. Some leave, some transfer to other courses or other universities, some come to us from other courses or other universities.

The only student who is difficult to help is the one who buries their head in the sand, promises to turn up to appointments and then doesn't.

OP, re the speaking in tutorials: plenty of students hate sitting exams. Should we abolish exams? Some hate writing essays. Not sure we can do away with them. Of course it seems cruel to have to do something you don't feel confident with. The best your tutor can do is help you find ways to develop that confidence.

In Social Sciences and Humanities subjects we have to think not just about the subject but about the transferrable skills we let our students develop. In fact, we have to think about that quite a lot as there is a strong sense that we haven't done enough of that in the past. And it is probably the case that for a good many careers involving Social Sciences and Humanities, being able to explain your reasoning face to face and meet questions is a very useful skill. Oral presentations do come into many jobs. And they can really help thinking. I sometimes feel I learn more about my research by giving a single conference paper than by sitting in the archives for months. (Of course I need to do both.)

"Come back to us when you're writing up your dissertation and compare your stress levels then to your stress levels now!"

An undergraduate degree doesn't' necessarily involve a dissertation.

OK, so after 10 pages, I can see OP's problem. She got straight A's but went to a university that accepts lower exam results.
One thing the British university system does really well generally is match students to unis. I'd say that failing and re-sitting is much less common than in continental universities, because students can usually find a uni that is 'at their level'.
Of course it's different for mature students who are less mobile.

@corythatwas no but speaking in tutorials isn't mandatory. Don't get me wrong, I complete the seminar activities and when we get put into break out rooms I discuss what my answers were and do take in what the others are saying. However when in a main group I don't feel comfortable speaking out.

In saying that, if I were being graded on how much I contributed during a seminar then of course I would prepare and put in the effort and force myself to talk.

I hate to sound like a snob, but there is a reason that a degree from Glasgow Caledonian is not as well regarded as a degree from Glasgow Uni. It is not as hard. I find it bizarre that people may be surprised by this.

OP - you are obviously bright, but I suspect that you would struggle a lot more if you went to a better university.

A good friend of mine from a RG university then went on to Cambridge for his PhD. He was quite open about the fact that our undergrad degrees were much, much easier and at a significantly lower level than those at Cambridge.

I also have a few friends that studied the same subject that I did, but at Oxford and Cambridge. Their brains are much bigger than mine, and their degrees were much harder. And again - sorry to sound like a knob - I suspect I may have strolled through the degree at Glasgow Caledonian.

@RevIMJolly what can I do though when the 'better' universities don't offer the course I want to do and when I can't move as I have a daughter.

I'm a full time lone parent uni student and it's hard!
If I was just a student I wouldn't be finding it so hard. Likewise, if I had another adult to also do some parenting it wouldn't be so hard.
The material isn't difficult as such but the complete lack of time to do anything well (being a parent/being a student) is stressful. I'm doing OK actually (3rd yr) but it's relentless.