Why are all the nutcrackers Caucasian?

[theboldtype]

Sorry this is in the wrong spot, I couldn’t find the Christmas thread.
I’m wanting to buy nutcrackers of colour for my Christmas tree and I can’t find them anywhere. Is there a legitimate reason why no one makes them?
And I’m sorry if I’ve used the wrong wording.
My niece and nephew are mixed race and I would like my tree to have some diversity (I have a bit of a nutcracker theme going on).

Probably because they're supposed to represent German soldiers, not fictional characters.

MrsMiaWallis does it really matter to you if the OP wants a black nutcracker? It has no impact on your life so why don't you fuck off with your barely disguised racism.

Not the point here, but do nutcrackers scare the shit out of anyone else?! They really freak me out.

Some amazing decorations. My DD is dual heritage and to my shame I've never thought how crap that everything xmas is so 'white'. Really want one of those angels now

Yep not too keen on them either

thought it was a ballet thread and wondered where you'd been to see ballet😒

But the baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and (mostly) the Magi you can buy are all white. How is that historically correct? All the angels that you can buy are also white.

For a start the soldiers existed.

Eh?! It’s been pretty much established that Jesus existed, even by secular historians.

And the depiction of Jesus/angels as white is a major issue, given he was Middle Eastern.

And the depiction of Jesus/angels as white is a major issue, given he was Middle Eastern.

Pretty much the entire western world depicts Jesus as white. Not that excuses anything at all but I'm wondering how well it would have been 'sold' to the rest of the world if he would have been depicted accurately? Which is entirely the fault of others, of course.

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

thought it was a ballet thread and wondered where you'd been to see ballet😒

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay, I know it isn't the same, but Scottish Ballet are streaming a Christmas ballet, The Secret Theatre. I'm missing out on my usual birthday/Christmas trip this year () so this is the next best thing.

I am in love with March Muses designs. I really want one of the Lady Afro Angels and Siana. Their expressions are so serene.

I understand your query about skin tone but not why anyone wants them in the first place. They're creepy wee fuckers

@iklboogeymum

And the depiction of Jesus/angels as white is a major issue, given he was Middle Eastern.

Pretty much the entire western world depicts Jesus as white. Not that excuses anything at all but I'm wondering how well it would have been 'sold' to the rest of the world if he would have been depicted accurately? Which is entirely the fault of others, of course.

It's a fascinating topic in history of art.

Surely for the same reason that all Zulu warriors are black.

would you still feel the same way if everything or almost everything you purchased from the high street was brown/black skinned? That it's 'just' dark skin on everything you purchased , even though you were white ?

Well, I live in a country where most people are ethnically East Asian so adverts, makeup, children's book illustrations and things like that basically reflect that.

There's no point getting upset about it. It's just the way most people look here.

The nutrcracker will be caucasian looking because he originates from a region where traditionally almost everyone was caucasian.

As for depictions of Jesus: I can find old-fashioned images of Jesus with golden hair, but a Google image search suggests that most modern images show Jesus, Mary and Joseph as typically Middle Eastern/Jewish looking, with dark brown or black hair, brown eyes and not particularly pale skin. Which is roughly how they probably looked.

Genuinely curious on thoughts here...but if the the origins of these figures are from a Caucasian origin, then wouldn’t making multiracial ones be cultural appropriation ?

I mean it wouldn’t be right if someone wanted to buy Caucasian Samurai figures, would it as an example?

@iklboogeymum

the angels that you can buy are also white

Have you met many angels?

Nope. But if they were to exist they most definitely wouldn't all be white.

Aren't they Swiss or German soldiers or something?

It's a bit like asking why aren't there any caucasian Masai Mara warrior dolls

I think it's wonderful to want Christmas decorations that reflect different ethnicities to match your family or to reflect where you live. It's great that companies are making these.

Not that you've said this exactly, but it's unreasonable to not know the history and just assume racism. Nutcrackers are German in origin, and Germany historically only had white people (even today with immigration it's still overwhelmingly white).

Like people said, it's because they are German, and not modern Germans either. Of course you have make one that looks like whatever you like, I have one that is a lion, though I have no idea why.

As for Jesus, his family, and angels: typically in art they are depicted as looking quite similar to the people who created the art. So it really is no surprise that in Europe they tended to be fairly European looking - it's no more racist than a Jesus from Chad looking Chadian.

It's only more recently that people have started to think about it as important that depictions like that should be historically accurate, though it's always something of a guess as it's not like middle eastern Jewish people at that time were completely homogeneous in their looks.

And since the UK have had black people living here since Roman times I'm sure that Germansy did as well and so they will have had black German soldiers

Taking this line of argument further. Jesus could have been blonde haired and blue eyed. As Judea or Galilee or whatever it was called, was also part of the Roman Empire

Who cares anyway. Just paint the decorations to what you like

@Flaxmeadow

And since the UK have had black people living here since Roman times I'm sure that Germansy did as well and so they will have had black German soldiers

Taking this line of argument further. Jesus could have been blonde haired and blue eyed. As Judea or Galilee or whatever it was called, was also part of the Roman Empire

Who cares anyway. Just paint the decorations to what you like

I don't really even understand this argument. Yes, there were some black people in the UK in the past, even in the ancient world, but it's not like there were many. My grandmother born in 1920 in the midlands didn't see a black person until she joined the navy during the war other than in films and photos, and even then most were Americans.

I suspect that the pre- 20th century German army wasn't a lot different.

....you can get golden skin nutcrackers too -
thesweetestoccasion.com/2013/12/diy-golden-nutcrackers/
Only place I've seen golden skin is in a James Bond film and that didn't end well.....

Genuinely curious on thoughts here...but if the the origins of these figures are from a Caucasian origin, then wouldn’t making multiracial ones be cultural appropriation?

I mean it wouldn’t be right if someone wanted to buy Caucasian Samurai figures, would it as an example?

An interesting point.

Usually it seems that cultural appropriation is only really used to talk about instances where an oppressed group is being appropriated, like native Indian headdresses or white people with dreads. It’s never used to refer to POC straightening their hair etc, although there is the argument in that specific case that they are doing it because of the dominant culture they have been forced to live in, having been removed from their original surroundings/culture.

Goosefoot I don't really even understand this argument. Yes, there were some black people in the UK in the past, even in the ancient world, but it's not like there were many. My grandmother born in 1920 in the midlands didn't see a black person until she joined the navy during the war other than in films and photos, and even then most were Americans.

I suspect that the pre- 20th century German army wasn't a lot different.

I agree with you. I don't understand it either.

I was being flippant and going down that route for arguments sake. Replying to we had black people in Roman Britain, then so Jesus could also have been white, as Judea was also part of the Roman Empire

But yes in reality, there were not many black people in Roman Britain, or Germanica, and its unlikely Jesus was blonde haired and blue eyed.