To be disappointed about this?

[imamearcat]

We had to do a bit of a fluffy exercise at work.

To pick a celeb/character/person who you admire who has the qualities that are aspirational to our team.

I did a bit of a fun one with my daughter on Elsa from frozen. All the others were men. Mostly ones in suits.

First time ever I've really felt sexism. AIBU?

Who would you have picked OP? You personally, not your daughter?

I find it strange you had to involve your daughter and “make it fun”. Not very professional.

Do you aspire to be Elsa?

If you'd picked a real woman to admire I could agree with you at your frustration at the lack of female representation, but as you picked a fictional cartoon character over a plethora of actually admirable people I do not understand your superiority complex over it.

You didn't pick a woman either?

I see the ops point. Until people start picking women as the default go to, we will continue to live in a sexist world.
I would choose Ann Boleyn, Elizabeth 1, Debbie Harry, Anita Roderick, Germaine Greer, Yvette Cooper, Jaqueline Wilson, Judy Blume off the top of my head.

@TheDaydreamBelievers

Out of interest, who would people choose? Off the top of my head theres:

Politicians
Kamala Harris
Caroline Lucas
Hilary Clinton

Actors
Blake Lively

Athletes
Alyson Felix

Fictional
Moana I agree is a good role model

Off the top of my head — Gareth Peirce, Catherine Corless, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Mahala Yousafzai, Anne Enright, Jacibda Ardern, Nancy Pelosi, Toni Morrison, Jane Goodall, Mary Robinson, Greta Thunberg, Kate Bush, Doreen Lawrence, Judi Dench, Mary Beard, Hilary Mantel?

Yes you chose a cartoon figure, but even if you’d chosen Svetlana Tikhanovskaya or Kamala Harris or Anna Wintour or Jessica Ennis-Hill, your colleagues would still have chosen men (with depressing predictability). Your point stands. YANBU.

Who nominated Captain Cook in the year 2020?! My god. I would have given an impromptu history lesson at that.

And yes, it's shit that we've all been conditioned to downplay women's achievements. YANBU

YANBU.

And if you had left out who you picked for this exercise you would have probably had a resounding YANBU.

Sadly it shows not much has changed. I was on a Leadership training course 20 years ago and we all had to do a presentation on a great "leader".

Everyone else chose men (probably a 60/40 split of men/women on the course). Branson, Alex Ferguson ete featured highly if I recall.

I chose a woman. Elizabeth I actually as she was a great leader and also as she ticked all the modules of leadership we were being taught (role model, firmness, being visible - other such guff). also as I did a history degree and still had a book about her in the house

It made me sad 20 years ago that everyone else chose a man. It is sad it still happens.

And I may well now be lambasted as I (20 year ago) chose a historical woman not a contemporary one.....

I get you, OP. When many people are asked to name someone significant or inspiring they think of men. It's like how 'man' is somehow interchangeable for 'human' and women are somehow 'other'.

Your choice was discrimination against humans. Elsa is an animated character

@imamearcat

I'm not judging women. I'm just saying I feel sad that it just happens that everyone in our team happens to admire men.

So there's no men you admire?? I don't think women admiring men is the point , so much as men apparently seeming not to admire women.

But you gave it virtually no thought and picked someone your child liked so I'm not sure you get the moral high ground on who people chose. Maybe of they'd done it properly too and put some effort into it they'd have picked a woman, maybe you'd have picked a man

@notheragain41

Do you aspire to be Elsa?

If you'd picked a real woman to admire I could agree with you at your frustration at the lack of female representation, but as you picked a fictional cartoon character over a plethora of actually admirable people I do not understand your superiority complex over it.

You didn't pick a woman either?

At the end she's a strong and form leader who puts the needs of her people first. She's close and fiercely protective of family. Her love was so strong it broke a curse. She's physically fit - (all that mountain hiking).

Why are so many women willing to deny everyday sexism? Nit-picking to make excuses for it, I'm sure some people spend their days sleep walking.
It doesn't matter who the OP chose, everyone else would still have chosen men. How is this not depressing?

So what are you going to do with your disappointed and sad feelings about this, OP?

I think you need to feedback to HR, or whoever was running the course, and point out that this happened, that it shows ingrained sexism and that some training around unconscious bias would be helpful.

Did the person running the course not bring it up? I would expect a trainer to note this and comment on it.

If you just ignore it, because ‘it was a fluffy bit of fun’ then you’re not helping the issue be resolved.

I agree. There are many women to admire and it is concerning that not one participant picked one.

I don't know why so many are picking on the op for choosing a fictional character when the brief was 'celeb/character/person'.

I'd have gone for a scientist and/or software writer. I'd probably have picked Sarah Gilbert, or Dorothy Hodgkin if historical, Eleanor Dodson (I wouldn't expect many of you to have heard of her but she's well known in her field.

But you gave it virtually no thought and picked someone your child liked so I'm not sure you get the moral high ground on who people chose.

Being disappointed of the team as a whole isn't 'taking the moral high ground', it's making an observation.
But re the 'virtually no thought' - well, that's part of the issue. It was a 'fluffy exercise' so chances are the rest of the team didn't give it much thought either and that's exactly when unconscious biases are most likely to be apparent.

I don’t think you can judge when you chose a Disney character over real life women.

also to add I don’t think it matters you chose a cartoon character as it was a fun game. But just if your gonna judge others on choices lol

I think picking men is to be expected. They are still the ones who get to the top. That's the sexist bit, the fact that there aren't as many women to choose from.

Tbh, I'd probably pick a man too, because they are both more successful and more visible. The increased visibility is also sexist.

But there is also a positive for the future, that women also chose a successful person (man), women are able to vocally state a level of ambition that was not socially acceptable a few decades ago. Slow progress, and not enough, but still.

Actually, I've reread the question, and if it's a person you admire then for me it would probably be Mary Beard. So not a man.

But if the question was who do you wish to emulate in a work context, then my choice would be a man. Perhaps it depends on how the question was interpreted?

Quite simply, there’s more men than women to choose from, so it’s inevitable that more men will be picked. That might be down to the historical years of sexism where women simply didn’t have the same opportunity to achieve as men did, but choosing those men as someone who has aspirational qualities isn’t sexist.

Deliberately choosing a woman and not considering men because you want to promote women is what’s sexist.

Deliberately choosing a woman and not considering men because you want to promote women is what’s sexist.*

it's affirmative action, merely seeking to redress the balance a bit. If anyone thinks that's sexism, no wonder we're still at this point in 2020.

@SusannaSpider

Why are so many women willing to deny everyday sexism? Nit-picking to make excuses for it, I'm sure some people spend their days sleep walking. It doesn't matter who the OP chose, everyone else would still have chosen men. How is this not depressing?

No one is denying that — or almost no one. They’re pointing out that it’s depressing that the OP, while criticising her colleagues, appears not to realise that she didn’t choose a woman either, or that if she even actually considered choosing a woman, she decided not to and opted for a cartoon Disney Princess with a curse that makes her freeze things and an annoying power ballad.

The fact that the OP claims its the first time she’s ever experienced sexism makes me also want to ask her about the pay gap, rape conviction rates etc.

YANBU. See also mostly men on statues, mostly men with blue plaques, more men with wikipedia pages, male only conference panels, women's contributions overlooked for Nobel prizes, the entire book 'Invisible women' (Caroline Criado-Perez)...