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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people read t+C's before making a big purchase

15 replies

BigMomma164 · 27/11/2020 14:04

Just watching a programme about shared ownership housing. One person bought a flat with a 78year lease. States the housing association should have warned her. I was shocked at the lack of personal responsibility. If I was in that same position I'd be beating myself up for not being thorough rather than expecting someone else to point these simple things out. Second person I would be annoyed at would be my own solicitor.
AIBU to think it's an individual's responsibility to read the fine print?
Sick of so much of society blaming others for their problems and refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.
And honestly if I hear the term "duty of care" one more time I feel like my head will explode.
Note: this applies to adults with capacity. Obvs very different for those with additional needs or vulnerabilities.

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/11/2020 14:19

I did massive research before buying because I was not familiar with things like leashold really (I couldn't accept that you own the house but not really😂). Can't imagine I wouldn't check things like this.

I am with you. People really need to take responsibility. There is only so much others can do for you🤷🏻

BarbaraofSeville · 27/11/2020 14:36

Did they have a mortgage? You usually run into difficulties if the lease is under 99 years and many lenders won't lend. So there should have been a red flag there.

Did their solicitor point this out? This is the sort of thing where you'd expect the professional advisors that you're paying to point this sort of thing out to you. If they didn't, its their fault, so I might have sympathy if the solicitor didn't do their job properly.

Witchend · 27/11/2020 14:37

People don't read terms and conditions generally.

I had a situation a couple of years ago at work where in order to access a specific website, run by our local county council, you had to sign you agreed with the terms and conditions. There will have been 1000s of people needing to do this.
One of the conditions was that you "Obeyed the rules of the state of X, USA" and if you violated them you could be tried in X, USA." There were other similar ones that I was not prepared to sign, plus there were references to the UK as part of EU with no consideration for after Brexit (eg any country other than USA that wasn't part of EU would be required to pay extra).
I didn't think this was reasonable, and contacted their department that dealt with this website to say so, and ask what was going to be the situation after Brexit. Not only had none of their clients asked about any of this. but they themselves were unaware too.
I didn't think their advice of "of course we wouldn't expect you to do that, and I'm sure we'll sort it out after Brexit" was a reasonable answer either.
It was entirely for their benefit they wanted me on the website too.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/11/2020 14:40

Tbf some T&Cs are bit ridiculous. PayPal's run to 90k words if I remember correctly. That's a novel.

But terms like lease are much shorter and so there is not much excuse really

MedusasBadHairDay · 27/11/2020 14:44

In a previous job we'd send a form to people to sign, it was a really short form, 3 short paragraphs on an A4 page, with one paragraph bolded for emphasis.

I lost count of all the people who came back insisting they'd never been told the information contained in the bolded paragraph.

TheStripes · 27/11/2020 14:48

I do agree that people have to take personal responsibility but a decent solicitor should highlight the length of the lease and potential repercussions. However, usually a price of a property reflects the lease.

ivfbeenbusy · 27/11/2020 14:52

I think when it comes to something as complicated as buying a house then I would say it's not unreasonable to expect your solicitor - a paid professional - to advise you of something like this. I wouldn't expect the majority of the population to understand leaseholds or the impact of having less than 99 years remaining.

tectonicplates · 27/11/2020 14:52

If I was doing something as complicated and expensive as buying a house, I'd pay a solicitor to tell me this stuff. But I've heard numerous stories of solicitors not pointing things out to their clients.

Saracen · 27/11/2020 15:22

Yes, people should read the terms, but some people struggle to take information in when it is in a document. I think the solicitor is also to blame here.

MotherForker · 27/11/2020 16:31

1 in 4 adults in the UK are functionally illiterate. Reading terms and conditions doesn't mean you understand. Legal jargon can be very difficult u for many people to comprehend.

It can be easy to judge if you are a literate, well educated person.

Hayeahnobut · 27/11/2020 16:36

Most people don't have the ability to understand conveyancing documents. Leases in particular are complex documents. That's why people pay solicitors, to explain the legal speak to them. Solicitors do have a duty of care to their clients. Did you not instruct a solicitor when you purchased your property?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/11/2020 16:38

I would actually be curious to see why it's quite high in a developed country like this.

Hayeahnobut · 27/11/2020 16:46

It can be easy to judge if you are a literate, well educated person.

I help out on a home buying/ problems group, and there are many professionals who don't understand leaseholds (and fleecehold, that's another big issue). The law in this area is complex, and very one sided. People assume that they'll have rights if something goes wrong, but in this area they have very few.

Hayeahnobut · 27/11/2020 16:48

The CMA is taking enforcement action against developers on this issue, as they agree that there is evidence of misselling and unfair terms.

www.gov.uk/government/news/leasehold-homes-cma-launches-enforcement-action

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/11/2020 16:51

People should be taught to not assume anything untill it's confirmed. That's a big problem.
Obviously solicitor has duty of care and there is a reason for them but people really shouldn't just expect that they don't have to look into anything themselves. No one wants them to recite The Law of Property Act or be able to workout covenants by themselves. But there are hundreds of websites where basic information is available. From that then you can go and say to your solicitor "So the lease, is it ok? Is the time an issue?" Or "Can you tell me more about the covenants then? Should I worry?".

I do agree though that legalese is ridiculous and shouldn't be used in communication with public!

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