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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child benefit rival claim

65 replies

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 10:57

After a court order that I would look after my 3 children 2/3 of the time in 2016, my ex-husband has recently requested that he has the children 50/50. The children do seem to enjoy their time with their father overall and were keen for the 50/50 split so I agreed to trialling this a couple of months ago, however he has now put in a rival claim for child benefit for all 3 children without talking to me first. I would be open to him having CB for one child IF the children settle in the current sharing pattern. At the moment they are very emotional and exhausted from lots of late nights and not enough space at their fathers , and I have asked him if he can try to get them to bed earlier but he has not responded and continues to allow late nights. My children have anxiety and emotional difficulties and I have been recommended by our GP that a decent bedtime and good amount of sleep is very important, however I feel frustrated that my ex just won't hear this.

So now I am doubtful as to whether he should get CB for any of the children if he is not caring for their wellbeing in this way - it makes transitions extremely difficult for them when I am doing one thing and he is doing another. Am I being unreasonable?

The other issue is that he lives in a studio with no bedrooms but he has created 2 bedroom spaces in the loft, using a step ladder to reach them. The children don't have a lot of space or privacy (my son - 8yrs- shares a room with his father), and they are all sleeping on mattresses. He has no proper heating, and I worry about the childrens wellbeing longterm. I do not know what the best course of action is as he doesn't want to acknowledge my concerns, He is not an easy person to deal with and has been emotionally abusive in the past, and didn't pay any maintenance for 5 years while I had the children the majority of the time.

I want to do the right thing for the children but don't know exactly what that is and I really do not want another legal battle - last time he tried to get full custody of the children. The childrens GP, Dentist and other appointments are all registered to my address and I am responsible for their appointments, communicating with the Home Education team, setting up their learning schedules and buying the majority of their clothing and education resources. My ex says he'd like to share these responsibilities 50/50 but in my experience it is I who has to guide him and remind him through any of these processes - and I find it is a lot easier to just do it myself. Nearly everytime I tell him the kids need an item of clothing he says he doesn't have money and I have to get it myself.

Also there is the case that he is currently on furlough but when he goes back to work as a carer he has said he is likely to leave the children with childminders, which is fine every now and then, but seems unnecessary as a regular occurrence when I can work around my children (I'm self employed) and they do not need any unnecessary upheaval to daily life - my son in particular is very anxious about being left with other people.

What would you do? Would it be unreasonable to hang onto CB for all 3 children until I know they're definitely going to settle in 50/50 split?

OP posts:
Footywidow · 25/11/2020 12:08

@titchy courts won’t help you with child benefit which is what this thread is about.

LakieLady · 25/11/2020 12:20

I'm a benefits adviser and have dealt with a few cases like this.

Resist him getting CB at all costs. The benefit system does not recognise 50/50 and all other benefits and entitlements, including those relating to housing, follow the CB.

The person getting the CB is regarded as the primary carer, so gets allowed the appropriate LHA rate for accommodation big enough for the children. I strongly suspect that he is applying for the CB so that he can claim for help with the cost of renting a 3-bed property, at the moment he is only entitled to the one-bed rate.

If you get UC/HB/CTC you will lose out if his application succeeds.

When you challenge his application, the sort of evidence they take notice of is things like who is down as the next of kin on school and medical records, and which address is shown on those records. Also location: if your home is in the catchment of their schools and GP surgery and his isn't, this is strong evidence.

You can also include things like where the majority of their clothes, toys, sports equipment etc are kept. One client sent in pictures of what was plainly her early teen daughter's bedroom, her school blazer was hung up in there and her PE kit bag was hanging from her bedpost. She also had a savings account, the address on that account was her mother's home, and that was the address on her passport.

The final bit of evidence she got was birthday cards, sent to her daughter at that address. Again, she sent in photographic evidence.

In your case, photographs of each child's bedroom would be strong evidence - why would someone pay for a 4-bed house if they don't have 3 kids living there?

The court order, as it stands, is very strong evidence that you are the primary carer.

Like PPs, his home is manifestly unsuitable for an adult and 3 children.

I think he's a cheeky fucker, and this must be really worrying for you.

pencilpot99 · 25/11/2020 12:23

Not sure if this will help but I have a similar situation. Three kids, 50/50 with their dad. We have a joint account for CB. All child-related extra curricular costs are paid out of that account eg school trips (not much at the moment), sports, ballet, brownies, music lessons etc. Plus any big clothing expenditure eg school shoes/coats etc. Every six months whatever is left in the account is split evenly between us. Claim is in my name but because it goes into a joint bank account what it's used for is completely transparent. Could you come to a similar arrangement but maybe do a 2/3 split every six months if he only has the children for 2/3 of the time? I guess you'd have to trust each other that you wouldn't raid the account for non-child-related stuff so may not work if you have a difficult relationship with your ex/he's untrustworthy.

Tiktaktoe · 25/11/2020 12:23

So you knew they were living in substandard accommodation for the last month but you have let it slide? Why didn't you act when you first found out about the living conditions?
You state He is not an easy person to deal with and has been emotionally abusive in the past so why would you allow him more access than absolutely necessary?

Titterofwit · 25/11/2020 12:24

Could it be that he is claiming Universal credit and has realised that by adding the children as dependents to his claim he could increase his award potentially by over £700 a month?

cheeseismydownfall · 25/11/2020 12:25

Echoing PPs, fire safety would be a huge concern for me.

I am generally very relaxed and have a higher than average tolerance for risk, but that situation would really concern me.

bigvig · 25/11/2020 12:45

It sounds to me like the children are saying they are happy because they love their father and don't want to offend him. It seems clear they are better off with you most of the time so I would step in to make this happen.

titchy · 25/11/2020 12:52

[quote Footywidow]@titchy courts won’t help you with child benefit which is what this thread is about.[/quote]
The reasons she's in this position is because she's agreed to give 50/50 a go, despite it not being in the court order, and on the face of it not being in the children's interests.

If she went back to the original court ordered agreement there would be no question of CB entitlement.

AnotherEmma · 25/11/2020 12:55

YABU to focus on the child benefit when it's clearly the least of your worries.
It sounds as if he is continuing to abuse and control you, by harassing you into agreeing to 50/50 (when he doesn't have suitable accommodation for the children and isn't meeting their basic needs ie enough sleep) and by putting in this claim for Child Benefit, which should be unsuccessful since you're the established resident parent and have a court order to that effect.

If I were you I'd ignore the Child Benefit issue and write him a letter highlighting your concerns about the well-being of the children while in his care, informing him that in your opinion the 50/50 trial has not worked and you want to go back to 2/3 as per the court order. Tbh I would be tempted to refuse any overnights if the children continue to struggle with staying there, again you would need to write to him stating why.

He has conditioned and bullied you into giving into what he wants, to the detriment of the children and their needs. Stay strong and fight for them.

UndertheCedartree · 25/11/2020 12:57

That is so dangerous sleeping in the loft with a step ladder! What if there was a fire? If he can't keep them safe I wouldn't allow overnights atall.

Thelnebriati · 25/11/2020 13:01

Just stick to the court order and whatever you do, dont let him take the CB. He can then muck you about as much as he likes and its impossible to get it back unless he hands it back voluntarily.

Ex took the CB details when I was in hospital and had the claim changed to his name. He continued to claim for years and even though everyone agreed it was fraud, no one would do anything about it. It affected all of my other benefits.

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:13

@LakieLady

I'm a benefits adviser and have dealt with a few cases like this.

Resist him getting CB at all costs. The benefit system does not recognise 50/50 and all other benefits and entitlements, including those relating to housing, follow the CB.

The person getting the CB is regarded as the primary carer, so gets allowed the appropriate LHA rate for accommodation big enough for the children. I strongly suspect that he is applying for the CB so that he can claim for help with the cost of renting a 3-bed property, at the moment he is only entitled to the one-bed rate.

If you get UC/HB/CTC you will lose out if his application succeeds.

When you challenge his application, the sort of evidence they take notice of is things like who is down as the next of kin on school and medical records, and which address is shown on those records. Also location: if your home is in the catchment of their schools and GP surgery and his isn't, this is strong evidence.

You can also include things like where the majority of their clothes, toys, sports equipment etc are kept. One client sent in pictures of what was plainly her early teen daughter's bedroom, her school blazer was hung up in there and her PE kit bag was hanging from her bedpost. She also had a savings account, the address on that account was her mother's home, and that was the address on her passport.

The final bit of evidence she got was birthday cards, sent to her daughter at that address. Again, she sent in photographic evidence.

In your case, photographs of each child's bedroom would be strong evidence - why would someone pay for a 4-bed house if they don't have 3 kids living there?

The court order, as it stands, is very strong evidence that you are the primary carer.

Like PPs, his home is manifestly unsuitable for an adult and 3 children.

I think he's a cheeky fucker, and this must be really worrying for you.

Thank you so much, I could easily do all of this if necessary. I'm hoping that my response in the rival claim form will be enough.
OP posts:
mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:13

@bigvig

It sounds to me like the children are saying they are happy because they love their father and don't want to offend him. It seems clear they are better off with you most of the time so I would step in to make this happen.
This is most likely true. They often say they feel sorry for him because he lives alone.
OP posts:
Runoutofideas45 · 25/11/2020 13:19

I can’t think of a diplomatic way to write this but the children should not be staying overnight in a loft accessed by a step ladder . Children are not woken by smoke alarms - they could end up dead. Stop fixating on the money side of things and stop overnight contact immediately .

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:20

Just to clarify, the debate about the CB is not about the money as such, it is more the fact that he has been a coercive, manipulative, emotionally abusive bully in the past and that he would use this power to his advantage to hurt me and the kids.

Thank you all for helping me to clarify my thoughts and priorities. I think I have been subtly manipulated by him again without even realising.

Thank you @LakieLady for your really helpful advice. Yes - this happened a few weeks ago and it has been giving me sleepless nights as I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Guess I need to just put my big girl pants on.

OP posts:
mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:21

@Runoutofideas45

I can’t think of a diplomatic way to write this but the children should not be staying overnight in a loft accessed by a step ladder . Children are not woken by smoke alarms - they could end up dead. Stop fixating on the money side of things and stop overnight contact immediately .
Thank you. I appreciate your straight talk.
OP posts:
Growapair · 25/11/2020 13:25

Yabu to be bickering over the child benefit when in reality you should be preventing the children having to spend 50% of their time with a neglectful father

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:28

@Growapair

Yabu to be bickering over the child benefit when in reality you should be preventing the children having to spend 50% of their time with a neglectful father
As above, it's not about the money. And thank you for helping me to clarify what I need to do.
OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 25/11/2020 13:28

Yes you do OP - this clearly isnt working for the children and the circumstances of his living arrangements are not conducive

DOes the court order of 2/3 to you still stand. If so I think you need to firmly say that the current set up isnt working well for the children and it should go back to what it was before

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:30

@Quartz2208

Yes you do OP - this clearly isnt working for the children and the circumstances of his living arrangements are not conducive

DOes the court order of 2/3 to you still stand. If so I think you need to firmly say that the current set up isnt working well for the children and it should go back to what it was before

Thank you. Yes I'm sure the court order still stands, I will dig it out and check. Good idea
OP posts:
mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:36

Another probably silly question : If I let the kids stay their overnight AT ALL would I be considered putting them at risk? (Given the safety issue)

OP posts:
Crazydoglady1980 · 25/11/2020 13:47

@mamabear08 I would consider this a safeguarding issue as anytime the children are sleeping in the loft they are at risk and if you allow this to happen, you are failing to safeguard them

Dontfuckingsaycheese · 25/11/2020 13:48

Yep. With current set up. Well I consider it a risk. One night. Seven nights. No difference. One night is too much of a risk.

mamabear08 · 25/11/2020 13:52

Ok, I shall get on the phone with Citizens Advice then. thank you.

OP posts:
CleverCatty · 25/11/2020 14:07

@Joswis

He needs to find proper accommodation with bedrooms for them if he wants this to be an equitable arrangement.
definitely - surely he should be sleeping in the loft permanently or semi permanently - that's so unsafe.

CB I'd say no to.