Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

A visit to their nana is hardly going to make them much higher risk than they already are.

Oh please, it’s unlikely to just be a visit to Nana.

My child has exams in January that count towards her final mark. She was in the cohort that had their. GCSE’s cancelled last year so has been disrupted more than enough. I really really don’t want the schools to close again.

[quote LadyPenelope68]@MeowMeowLikeACow
No, the idiot parents like you who don’t give a shit about teachers and all their bothered about is childcare so they can work as the ones who are “fucking unbelievable” as you describe it.[/quote]
But school is childcare to many. You don't have to like that fact but you should at least acknowledge it. Yes you are there to teach but a lot of parents are able to work during that time so effectively it's a form of childcare.

Many parents have already taken time off to home school their children during the months the schools were closed and have no more holiday left. To take unpaid leave at a time when redundancies are plenty would be a risky move as employers may not look favourable on them (I'm not agreeing with that at all but it's the reality)

Schools need to remain open and children need to continue to receive the education they are entitled too

What happens to the children who are too young to be left while parents go to work?
What happens to the teenagers who will just congregate in parks?
What happens to the families who do not have enough technology to facilitate gone learning?
What about those who don't have somewhere quiet to work?
I don't have any answers to these by the way! I am a teacher who now does tuition but the school I worked at for many years is in a very difficult area where many of the kids can be young carers, many of them can't see the point in education etc. Many of them going to school is their only bit of safety and stability. Many of them don't remember a pen, let alone be independent enough to do home learning even if their circumstances do allow.
I'm glad I'm no longer in the classroom and my heart goes out to my former colleagues.

Given it is far more likely for children to catch Covid from their teacher than vice versa then surely the question should be ‘is it reasonable to not want to send a child to school to share a classroom with a teacher who has been mixing over the holidays?’

I think schools should close for 2 weeks from late December until early January at a time when most parents have already arranged to be off work or already have childcare...
Oh wait, they already are!
The 2-week Christmas holidays is the perfect time for restrictions.
Every year, people laugh about how the period between Christmas and New Year is so quiet and uneventful that they forget what day it is. That is pretty much lockdown anyway.
Allow special circumstances for those in difficult situations like single-person support bubbles and those with serious illness etc., everyone else stay in their existing household and then in January we will be in a better position to get back to education, work, healthcare, shopping etc.

I assume the OP would be okay with not being paid for those two weeks?

I agree. I'm not a teacher but I don't want any teachers forced to be among kids who might have been exposed. I might keep my DD off for two weeks if it isn't illegal

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@Sewsosew
I would say if people choose to mix in their homes, they have to live (or not live) with the consequences. What is wrong is to ask me and my fellow teachers to live with the consequences of their decisions.[/quote]
Our local hospital, as usual, is already full. The issues are much bigger than just teachers having increased risk.
What about the increased risk to hospital workers when it spikes again.
For the majority of people Christmas needs to be a non social event this year. Saying it’s okay will open the floodgates as far as people are concerned.

I agree OP. There has been a rise in cases in my area , and some teachers are isolating. I live in a part of Wales where so far cases have not been helped by the firebreak, and the area of the county around the school has the highest numbers. We have an especially vulnerable community with a lot of elderly people, so in general people have been pretty careful here, but now it seems to be spreading more. I am really worried about the teaching staff at the school, who are basically having to risk the virus daily. Having another break after Christmas would help keep them safe, and also the wider community.

@Doordine

I'm a teacher and it really surprises me how little some other teachers seem to value education. Like it's optional.

Online teaching is great... When you have Internet access, a computer, a desk, a quite home, supportive parents.

What about the kids we teach who are sharing one laptop between 5 siblings? Who share a room with 2 others? Who wont get fed that day? Who don't actually have internet? Who will need to look after younger siblings while their parents go to work in supermarkets or hospitals for example?

Two weeks is a huge amount to miss-especially when your privileged peers are cracking on.

If you are concerned that the measures in place in your school aren't enough to control virus spread then take it up with your school. That's the real issue. We have an important job to do and the younger generations have suffered enough without causing them even more disruption.

What about those kids who haven't been provided for by the government - the same government who also didn't think that these kids also needed feeding? Don't point the finger at teachers and schools who have been desperately working to fill in these gaps in provision. As a teacher, you should be well informed and aware of this

I assume the OP would be okay with not being paid for those two weeks?

I assume I would be working, online teaching etc.

Schools should physically close for ONE week before the official holiday, leaving 14 days for children and staff to be clear of anything in the school building before seeing loved ones on the 25th.

University students are being tested and travelling home to families within a window to ensure safety, and that they don't transmit back to their home communities.

Yes, Year 11s have exams to sit, but they should all really be revising over the normal Christmas closure for January mock exams. Without Covid, they'd usually be given revision materials, past papers, teachers' feedback to improve previous work, and links to appropriate online materials. This is all over and above what teachers must provide during days they are not paid to be available to work, but it's always there. The kids would normally be expected to work independently and be resilient enough to get on with it. It is the norm to have to work while siblings are at home and use only the technology usually available. But during closures where staff are not paid, children are unlikely to have contact with teachers.
During blended learning, teachers are there (although not physically) and supporting. In many ways, a personalised aporoach is more possible from the most diligent to the least engaged pupils, so short one to one communication is more impactful than just sitting in the same room for an hour.

These kids already needed a push towards independence and away from spoonfeeding. (The number who spol lessons for others, waste time and expect to be okay because they turned up is astonishing. The number who think they don't need to listen or try in lessons, because they will come to a revision drop in after school and therefore magically have all the skills they need without practice is staggering.) It won't do them any harm to for a few days, and might do them some good in the long run, nevermind stopping them from infecting their relatives with a deadly virus.

[quote LadyPenelope68]@BustopherPonsonbyJones
would say if people choose to mix in their homes, they have to live (or not live) with the consequences. What is wrong is to ask me and my fellow teachers to live with the consequences of their decisions.
Sums it up perfectly![/quote]
Seconded! Why should I care more about keeping my students safe than their parents and carers? Why should other students and their families be placed at increased risk because some people want to have their cake and eat It?

@OverTheRainbow88

I assume the OP would be okay with not being paid for those two weeks?

I assume I would be working, online teaching etc.

And that’s fab, but many of us can’t work from home. I’d have to take (more) unpaid leave.

I’m hoping that schools being closed, a lot of businesses shut down for two weeks over Christmas might mitigate some of the effects of households mixing. For us I feel safer seeing a few family members where we know where they’ve been than the hundreds of students and staff they are in contact with every day at school.

I wouldn’t mind as much if my two at secondary did two weeks online learning as long as it was proper teaching and not the home school of before. But as others have pointed out there are mocks in January so that’s very unlikely to happen.

Primary schools closing will mean people can’t work again.

[quote LadyPenelope68]@WillowSummerSloth
And what should those of us that are both key workers (both doctors) with young children be expected to do
So you working is ok even if it puts teachers health at risk? Nice![/quote]
By that reasoning, do you mean that all doctors (or nurses, healthcare assistants, care workers etc etc) who ever come into contact with COVID patients shouldn't work or shouldn't have contact with anyone if they've been at work? If HCPs weren't working, what would happen to the patients?!

It is almost as if teachers are not mixing too...

Millions of people WILL mix over Christmas/New Years, I know lots of people on MN are saying they don't intend to but there are plenty of people who will, and not just because they are rule-breakers in general (it's all a conspiracy brigade). Just ordinary people who can't face Christmas without their loved ones, it will be people who think where's the harm in having my parents, my sister and her family over, we know they don't have covid so it's fine. They won't be considering all the potential contacts before and after, so their own kids at separate schools, their separate workplaces, the sister/BIL workplaces, the nieces/nephews schools and the possible workplaces of the parents if not retired (and that's not even factoring in any social mixing, shopping trips etc). That is the reality we are facing so it only makes sense to try and find something to reduce the fall out from that. My suggestions are;

1. Close secondary schools 2 weeks early (except for vulnerable/keyworker kids) as the transmission is higher in secondary than primary.

1. Come out of lockdown on December 3rd with regards to businesses re-opening (to boost the economy/save jobs) but still restrict household/social mixing and encourage WFH if it's possible.

1. Relax penalties over Christmas/New year, so encourage low key single household Christmas and staying in for New Years (with bubble/terminal relative exclusions) but people will not be fined between certain dates (24th-26th and 31st-1st) but with a stark warning that mixing over the holidays may lead to further and longer lockdowns if we have a really big spike.

1. On January 2nd have a 2-week strict circuit breaker; all but essential shops closed, schools/colleges/unis closed (except to vulnerable/Keyworker kids and for any exams/mocks that need to take place that can't be delayed), 1 outdoor exercise, no mixing at all (apart from childcare for parents who need to work), everything back open on the 18th.

Hopefully, any rise in transmission from Christmas/New Years will have been contained as much as possible. I know people keep saying schools can't close but I would much rather see a short fixed-term closure (like a circuit breaker) than keep them open at all costs and we end up with a full lockdown for months on end like we had earlier this year. Also the less transmission in schools the less of the hokey cokey self-isolation situation we should have next year.

@OverTheRainbow88

I assume the OP would be okay with not being paid for those two weeks?

I assume I would be working, online teaching etc.

I think this pretty much sums it up. It’s very easy to call for lockdowns etc when your income & job are secure (I’m fortunate to be in this category). It’s a very different ball game when your income is being reduced to SSP (or in some cases 0), or your in a industry that is making mass redundancies.

Even if schools don't close formally for 2 week period I'm sure there will be many instances of contacts/classes/year groups/whole schools having to self isolate for 2 weeks after the surge of families mixing at Christmas/New Year

YANBU it's one of the fallouts of the irresponsible guidance.

I can't believe we're all having to sacrifice so much for the sake of people mixing for a couple of days over Xmas.

I'd like to see relaxation plans cancelled in place of more general relaxation when science shows it's ok.

Teachers are people too and should be supported to feel safe.

Two weeks before would make more sense. Two weeks afterwards seems a bit pointless.

TBF some seem to want no school 2 weeks before so that they can all cram together at Christmas (in the hope that less chance of killing gran), teachers want two weeks after so they have less chance of getting infected (from people who have gone mad at Christmas or just been unlucky). But the poor kids in year 11 trying to do GCSE mocks and year 13 trying to do A levels (in freezing cold rooms as the windows have to be open) have surely missed enough school already surely. If people go wild at Christmas schools will surely have to close again or it will be like a revolving door of isolations, businesses will have to close again more people will loose their jobs and more will die. Just be sensible please manage your own risks and have a quiet family christmas with just your household or genuine support bubble this year. Whatever Boris says you can do doesn’t mean you absolutely should/must do it. I.E if he says you can have 12 people meeting up or 4 households but if you can manage to do christmas with one or two households and their are only 4 or 6 of you just do that.

They have recently tested all the staff in one department of my local hospital (my friend works there). Half of them were positive and ASYMPTOMATIC.
People will socialise over Xmas, pass it about, have no ill effects until it passes onto someone who is ill. Schools are still part of that chain. Teachers will have partners who will be working with people who have picked it up on Xmas day.
People who work in care homes, factories, self employed won’t be isolating for 2 weeks after Xmas day. It’s so short sighted.