Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

My mistake, so sorry it's the 5th. I realised after I posted and got it removed. For what it's worth I don't think there should be household mixing over Christmas beyond support bubbles. I think the people who are determined to mix will mix regardless of rules though.

I think people need to use their common sense. If you have kids in school, should you really be going to visit lots of extended family, seeing older relatives, and then sending your kids into school? We plan to see my PIL who both WFH, but that's it this year. We wont see my parents or sister, or DHs sister. But we have a 2 year old and a newborn, no school age kids. I dont think there should be a blanket rule that everyone has to stay at home because of schools. That's not fair on people who have no school age kids, wfh, retired, or have babies or toddlers, who have been sitting at home seeing and speaking to nobody, day in day out, for most of the year. One Christmas where families just stick to themselves or see a very limited number of people isnt the end of the world. But do we really need a 'rule', or a blanket ban for all? We all need to use our own heads and be a little sensible for one year.

Chloedecker I’m sure that what all ICU consultants want for Christmas is an ultra hard lockdown. Post Christmas will probably be their most challenging month to date in this pandemic. Closing schools increases their workload as more vulnerable people take on childcare while parents have to work and are inevitably exposed to higher covid risk.

MummaBear I agree. I think those of us with school age kids who want them in school as much as possible should keep Christmas socialising to an absolute minimum. I will be spending Christmas alone for this reason, DS will be at his dad's. I'd rather forfeit family time for one year than DS miss more school.

"Closing schools increases their workload"

Nonsense, leaving schools open (with few safety measures being followed in reality) is far more likely to increase their workload, as the virus spreads yet further by all the mixing from children both in schools and as they then go home and for play-dates and sleepovers.
A stricter lockdown is probably what they're all praying for.

ICU consultants treat the sickest patients, these are likely to be the older and clinically vulnerable. Not children.
Avoiding large multigenerational gatherings at Christmas ie keeping the grandkids from seeing grandparents will have a much greater effect than closing schools for an extra couple of weeks especially if it’s grandparents doing childcare.
The virus isn’t going to have a couple of weeks off so we can enjoy Christmas.
My DS hasn’t seen his grandparents since the summer holidays. They are in their eighties and have expressed a wish to survive this pandemic. So we have agreed to stay away until a vaccine is available. We were able to do socially distanced visits when the weather was warmer but not now.
It’s not just Covid that puts them at risk it’s all the other seasonal virus that will potentially weaken their immune systems. Catching a cold or flu or norovirus and covid would significantly increase their risk of dying.
We intend to have a single household Christmas and stop the spread by trying to self isolate for much of the holiday period.

"ICU consultants treat the sickest patients, these are likely to be the older and clinically vulnerable. Not children."

I didn't suggest they were the children. The point is, that children spread the virus TO the older and clinically vulnerable. So, whilst schools remain open in the way they are, with ineffective means of limiting spread, community spread will continue.

No they should not. DC in year 13 has already had their education interrupted quite enough thank you. Closing schools might have been an option if they had collectively done a decent job last time round. Whilst many did and many teachers went above and beyond, the advice from the teaching unions was effectively to do nothing and then to be obstructive about reopening. I'm afraid that this behaviour is likely to colour people's perceptions of what would happen if schools closed again. There wouldn't be "blended learning" in every school or "online learning" - there is a risk that far too many schools would offer almost no learning at all once again.

Also, when the first lockdown started, many employers were pretty helpful about staff needing to have children at home, expecting it to be a fairly short term issue. This wasn't sustainable for the six months children weren't at school and an on off system of locking schools down to save Christmas/Easter etc etc isn't sustainable either. The old trope that schools aren't childcare has been proved to be a total non-starter - house price inflation over the last 25 years means that the majority of families rely on being able to send children to school or holiday care in order that both parents can work to pay the mortgage or the rent.

Schools need to stay open

"the advice from the teaching unions was effectively to do nothing and then to be obstructive about reopening."

That is SO not what happened, but still....

"This wasn't sustainable for the six months children weren't at school" Millions of children were at school throughout that time.

"There wouldn't be "blended learning" in every school or "online learning" - there is a risk that far too many schools would offer almost no learning at all once again."
The law has changed to ensure that all schools are legally required to provide remote learning as soon as they might need to close.

Only if they are exposed to the elderly and clinically vulnerable. I know that there are families that can’t avoid this but surely those that can should make every effort to do so.
The virus can only spread if we let it.
Personally I would like to see some hard hitting public information films in the run up to Christmas. Perhaps a Covid kills campaign rather than the usual drink driving campaign.

"The virus can only spread if we let it."
But that is exactly what we're doing right now, with school children roaming around as normal.

we aren't mixing and if levels are low MAY meet my parents for an outside walk. Thats it
I would prefer for schools to be shut before for 2 weeks but completely understand the view about keeping them closed afterwards. personally i would of been happy with them shut during lockdown 2

Millions of children were at school throughout lockdown? I don’t think that’s the case is it? Early on they were quoting 2% of the school population were in. Keyworkers were generally asked to use any other viable option, I think generally people kept kids away to protect staff even if they’d been on night shifts or had to ask relatives. Quite a few schools were shut completely.
There is no minimum or standard of remote learning required.
This country has never had a strategy of eliminating the virus, it’s always been about Containing to a level we can deal with. I very much doubt that schools will close until that level is reached. So possibly in the worst affected areas, or if there’s insufficient staff, as we’ve already seen. As an individual you may or may not agree with this, at least we have a very real possibility of a vaccine. It could be worse

@96315id

I am yet to meet a single person who has a positive thing to say about online learning

Research, then. Online teachers have never had so much work and it's a serious craft.

Didn't want it at the start, but had no choice. Got better at it very, very fast. Improving all the time, and good feedback.

This is in a university so the infrastructure is there, and not the same as schools. I see the problems, but as far as I can see, there is a very big chip of unwillingness even to try to think of some solutions or ways of trying it, to see how and where it could fit in.

I’m sorry but as the mother of a yr11 child I cannot support further time off school. His grandparents have lived their life, he hasn’t and the next few months will be so important for both his future and probably more important his mental health. We are already seeing the cracks and it is distressing to think that many children will end up with long term problems if we continue to push for school closures.
We have had two very public suicides in our very small town this month and probably more private ones. This is probably going on throughout the UK but doesn’t make the news. Do we continue protecting a very small percentage of the population or do we protect a much larger, healthy group who need to get on with life.
As a family we have mainly been isolating, my DH does have health issues which may make him more vulnerable, i work in an area of healthcare that presents a high risk. So we stay away from anyone who is a known high risk.
I don’t really care about this Christmas, I want to be able to celebrate my DHs landmark birthday with a huge party next summer with all his family still alive so we are actively keeping the most vulnerable safe.
If everyone uses the Christmas break as a firebreak then we will be giving our most vulnerable the gift of seeing next Christmas.

Millions of kids were not in school, although there were more once YR, 1 and 6 went back after May half term in England.

The teaching unions were obstructive. Don't mark work! Don't teach on Zoom! Don't teach face to face! No, just give our members their FT salaries one day a fortnight minding key workers' kids.

As for not being able to do socially distanced visits because it's not summer - can't people wear warm clothes?

The teaching unions were obstructive. Don't mark work! Don't teach on Zoom! Don't teach face to face!

Never happened. Not in the exact way you write anyway. For example, it was not “Don’t mark work!’ But ‘we advise teachers not to take physical books in to mark but mark online where they can”.

Same for the other points. Sigh.

OK, maybe not millions. I've just seen that there are around 8.8 million pupils of school age altogether (which surprised me - I'd have thought there were more). Maybe hundreds of thousands?
I'm viewing it through the lens of my own school, which opened at some point to every pupil who wished to have a place. So, Nursery, Reception Yr 1 and Yr 6 from May half term, and Yrs 2-5 from mid-June.

@Angrymum22

Chloedecker I’m sure that what all ICU consultants want for Christmas is an ultra hard lockdown. Post Christmas will probably be their most challenging month to date in this pandemic. Closing schools increases their workload as more vulnerable people take on childcare while parents have to work and are inevitably exposed to higher covid risk.

I agree with you. Did you assume that I want schools to close because I don’t. I would like schools safer than they currently are and I would like members of the community to not mix more than they have to in order to keep schools open more. I’acutely aware and have experienced sudden partial and full school closures with no notice and this is currently happening and causing disruption to all parents and young people-not just ITU Consultants.

All the effort schools have made to stop bubbles mixing will all be for nothing if rules are relaxed over Christmas. It will spread like wildfire.

Only if they are exposed to the elderly and clinically vulnerable. I know that there are families that can’t avoid this but surely those that can should make every effort to do so.

CV and CEV adults have no option if they go to or work in schools.

I'm CV and had no option of staying home from work. From September I was expected to be in school full time, working across the whole school with hundreds of children, with no social distancing (infant school so not expected and not really possible anyway) and obviously no masks. My protection was open windows and extra cleaning, which I did myself) plus the anti bac.

Lots of people who are CV aren't being allowed the chance to make every effort to keep themselves safer.

Inevitable I did catch Covid, almost certainly from work from a child, and ended up very poorly.

"This wasn't sustainable for the six months children weren't at school" Millions of children were at school throughout that time.“
a) not millions
b) they were at school but many were explicitly NOT taught, not even given access to home learning.
Some schools were great (and ours was), but many took the piss. That’s not going to change, so the kids who were disadvantaged before will be the one screwed over again.

"but many took the piss."

How "many" do you have evidence of? Bearing in mind that the government gave NO guidance or expectations of what was to happen, beyond the fact that the curriculum was suspended forthwith.

"That’s not going to change" Are you not aware of what I posted up-thread? That as of 23rd October, all schools are legally required to be able to switch to online provision straightaway, if required to close.

That’s not going to change, so the kids who were disadvantaged before will be the one screwed over again.

For those disadvantaged children who are currently and have had to, stay at home due to their bubbles closing, they are being disadvantaged even further right now, regardless. As Katharine Birbalsingh of the Michaela School said, those who were disadvantaged before Covid19, will still be disadvantaged after Covid19. Until we start properly looking into and funding the causes and support for that, it’s unfortunately a straw man argument.
Problem is, once most people go back to their ‘normal’, those children are forgotten about in the public psyche.

cologne4711

The teaching unions were obstructive. Don't mark work! Don't teach on Zoom! Don't teach face to face! No, just give our members their FT salaries one day a fortnight minding key workers' kids.

so much dross, so little time.

Why do posters keep putting this forward as the truth when it is anything but.