To think Christmas should not be treated differently from Eid and Diwali?

[RUNFAST11]

We are hearing the government could allow a few days meeting during Christmas. While I understand this may be necessary, this could lead to spikes of COVID again and put pressure on the NHS (nearly 600 deaths yesterday) we aren't out of the woods yet.

When it was Eid in May Muslims were warned not to congregate and meet other households. A similar message was said in Diwali to have a stay at home Diwali.

I always think it's a bit obtuse to seemingly not have noticed the significance of Christmas compared to other holidays in British culture.

Whether you agree with it or not, no other holiday attracts special pop songs, decoration of houses, movies, TV specials, bank holidays, annual leave bans, staff and school parties, mental health campaigns, charity fundraising etc to the same extent that Christmas does. You can't move for it. It has surpassed any religious significance for the majority of people and is symbolic of togetherness, celebration and the end of a year.

I can cope without it for a year, though I do usually enjoy it. My main concern would be the impact on Christmas trading for businesses.

I agree. I think the decision made so close to Eid was dreadfully timed and I think to allow leniency over Christmas could be construed as racist.

I am Christian.

I haven't seen anything about the restrictions on religious services and gatherings being relaxed. Only the social ones. The relaxation of rules appears to be about households mixing, not the religious celebrations.

Easter did go ahead. We just couldn't celebrate it in the usual way. The Holy Week liturgy's went ahead as usual but on line and minus the congregation.

Exactly @TheStripes

And yes. Easter is far more important.

@RUNFAST11

Yes it should be treated equally but if you live where I used to you will be aware people did not follow the rules at Eid, that's why numbers went through the roof 10 days later, I've moved but according to friends Diwali was quieter than normal but from the cars it was obvious people were visiting (illegally). Obviously some people are obeying the rules but my personal experience was that people didn't and back in May the police turned a blind eye

Eid was during the actual pandemic and therefore the situation was very different and affects about 5% of the uk population. Diwali is celebrated by 1% of the Uk population.

Chrsitmas is no longer (and wasn't originally) a christian celebration. There is also Hanuka just prior to Christmas.

I'm sure people of all religions and none will enjoy the opportunity to meet with families over Christmas time.

Or were you suggesting that only muslims or hindus would be allowed relaxation for Eid and Diwali? Or only Christians could meet during Christmas?

Its not about religion, its about shops, bars and restaurants making a huge proportion of their annual income between now and Christmas. If that's off there will be more places going under in the NY.

I don't think the government gives a toss about religion, they know that large numbers of people would disobey an order not to mix at Christmas and it would also take a huge toll on the economy as lots of retail businesses rely heavily on Christmas.

It's not fair, but none of this is.

I'm sorry it's hard for other religious groups, but as such a small percentage of the UK population are practising Christians, I think this is about practicality and consumerism more than anything.

And Easter was cancelled which is the more important Christian festival (contrary to what you would think in the media, it's just that's it's less about consumerism!)

I completely agree. Where is the science behind it? I'd rather we carry on with what we need to do to prevent the spread that people have a nice Christmas and start spreading it again.

Many muslims did celebrate Eid, quite rightly in my opinion, as they had already bought the food!
The government would like a lockdown break for Christmas because the huge amount of additional extra spending supports many businesses.
It's got nothing to do with religion - minority, majority or whatever.
I'm feeling rather unsure if it the right thing to do as the total lockdown that we then might need in Jan and Feb would be really really dire.

Wasn't Easter under lockdown? As that is the central festival for Christians I'm sure they can keep themselves at home for a lesser one.

Except. It's all about money isn't it? Not really god bothering at all. So sad.

I can see the reasoning, but we do have to consider the social as well as the biological factors in this. The ones that were used as a great excuse to delay the first lockdown, but the government has done a shite job of really considering them beyond their own desires, as MercyBooth talked about.

Connections matter and holidays are part of that. Communities can discuss new ways to handle to do that like what happened around Halloween with pumpkin trails and online services over Easter and similar that has gone on. I don't celebrate Christmas and very little changes for me if restrictions remain, but in general people need more than 'don't do that' for something important. We mostly had that around Easter, but I'm not sure there is a way for the government to get people as on side anymore with how much they and their private partners have fucked up since then.

Trying anything hard over Christmas is probably not going to do it. I imagine there will be some guidelines that will have varying degrees of enforcement, much as happened with the other holidays - yes, they were told not to congregate and meet other households, but ways were found around that- we had hours and hours of fireworks during Diwali when normally we have a handful (and yes, those holidays are communally celebrated even by those who are not devout, they're not purely religious either, and the dating for Christmas was in flux for hundreds of years, but I don't think the old Roman church cared what the Germanic who did not consistently celebrate Yule in December did. Holidays fluctuate and are complicated).

YANBU. But usually depending on your skin colour and religion rules apply differently to people in this country.

It’s all about spending. If the government can open up enough to get people buying gifts and food, they’ll happily have us pay the consequences come January.

Of course more people celebrate Christmas in the UK. But that is not the point.

It is. It's not just the people getting together, for example some retailers rely on Christmas for their yearly profits. The damage to cancelling Christmas would be huge in some sectors.

It's not discrimination, we are by statute, a Christian country and have state holidays based around it... and we didn't have Easter so it's not a blanket decision.

We follow the science but ignore it when it is balanced against mental health, economic factors etc. That's why Eid was sanctioned, BAME communities being more at risk etc

And most simply, non of this is wholly logical. It can't be. No country has 100% logical rules about covid. We do what we can.

If you want to break the Christmas regs go for it. But do the rest of us a favour, be very honest with yourselves about your reasons why and your health status before and after! Don't risk your family, friends and neighbours for a sit down get together!

I’d like them to say that no one should have to be alone at Christmas .It’s more about the fact it’s an isolating holiday than religion. So solitary grandparents or adult children living alone can travel to one related household - potentially extend that to include elderly couples and single parents . I don’t think there should be big multi generational extended families mixing and massive friendship group based Christmas parties though .

@Bluejewel

I’d like them to say that no one should have to be alone at Christmas .It’s more about the fact it’s an isolating holiday than religion. So solitary grandparents or adult children living alone can travel to one related household - potentially extend that to include elderly couples and single parents . I don’t think there should be big multi generational extended families mixing and massive friendship group based Christmas parties though .

As it stands a single person can bubble with another household and vulnerable/elderly people needing care can be visited by a friend or relative that does that.

So they don’t have to actively come out and say that. We’ve been allowed to form a support bubble for many months now. Single parents are included in it already.

@RUNFAST11

We are hearing the government could allow a few days meeting during Christmas. While I understand this may be necessary, this could lead to spikes of COVID again and put pressure on the NHS (nearly 600 deaths yesterday) we aren't out of the woods yet.

When it was Eid in May Muslims were warned not to congregate and meet other households. A similar message was said in Diwali to have a stay at home Diwali.

No, we cancelled easter and this is a Christian country

YABU, because the rules have to work for the majority. The overwhelming majority of people in the country see Christmas as a special occasion, they have routines and traditions that they always do at Christmas but not the rest of the year. The same can't be said for the holidays of other faiths, they are conducted by a small minority.

Remember Easter was cancelled too. It's not a Christian/atheist-but-celebrate-Christmas-with-food-and-get-together vs. Muslims and others thing. It simple depends on what measures need to be taken at what time. In the Spring, people of every faith couldn't celebrate their usual holidays. In November in England, the same is true again. Come December, there may be a period of a few days where people of all faiths are entitled to celebrate whatever holiday they like that happen to occur at that time.

I've not heard any talk about lifting the restrictions around church services or attendance at them, carol singing, nativity plays - the actual Christian celebration. These restrictions appear to be be in full force with no plans to change that (that I've heard - I could have missed it).

The Christmas they are talking about 'saving' is annual end of year festivities which are cultural and not religious at all for the majority of people. It's a celebration of the end of the year, cheering up of deepest winter, a break from school and work (for some, not all), a time of family gatherings, and the time when a lot of UK businesses make a large portion of their annual profits.
I don't think there should be the usual office parties, concert going, Christmas markets etc, but for the sake of mental health and morale, I think there should be some easing off so that people are not alone and can see the people that matter most to the them - IF they feel that is safe. We are not in March - everyone knows now who is most at risk and what they need to do to mitigate that risk and they should be capable of making their own choices.
There will be people who behave recklessly - but these are same people who will be reckless regardless of the guidance anyway.

If people want to have their families over for Christmas they will do so, the govt cannot control who people have over in their own homes so this was always going to happen regardless of it being allowed or not.

Unless the govt dispatches police officer to go into people's homes on Christmas and break up gatherings, in that case we have bigger things to worry about than covid.