To get a bad vibe from this nursery worker?

[Mum2threee]

My child has autism spectrum disorder and is non verbal. His key worker at (SEN) nursery appears to be in a bad mood whenever me or DH see her, no pleasantries or so much as a smile at hand over. Approachable. Every other member of staff are warm and happy to have a chat at pick up.

I rarely see her due to work it's usually DH doing the pick up but I'm off at the moment so went myself.

She seemed a bit inpatient and fed up with DS today when he didn't notice her trying to get him to take his lunch box, he wasn't looking as he was bouncing excitedly as he saw me. She sighed at him and said "Oh come on (DS name) or shall I give it to your mum"

Aside that she didn't say a word to me.

She also rushed putting his ear defenders on all wonky so that his ears were bent over and squashed. The defenders sit very tight against his head so that would have been quite uncomfortable for him.

Nobody is sunshine or rainbows all of the time but shouldn't nursery workers at least try to appear upbeat and welcoming for the childrens sake?

Would you also get a bad vibe based on what I've written?

I would mention it

Your son can’t speak so you have to advocate and speak up for him. Absolutely say something !

Former nursery room leader here. Have a chat with manager (you may have to email ahead to arrange a time to chat) and let them know your concerns. The relationship between a key worker and child should be a strong, trusting one and if your DS's key worker isn't bonding with your DS or perhaps doesn't know how to meet his additional needs correctly, the manager can help and will want to help. It's very common for children to change key worker, not every pairing fits perfectly, and that's ok. It may also help the key worker if she's struggling to care for your son or going through a difficult personal issue. Good luck!

No one can be sunshine or rainbows all the time, but in that kind of job you have to pretend even if you're not feeling it!
I used to be a nurse for people with learning disabilities and no matter how stressed out or busy I was, if one of the residents or their families spoke to me they wouldn't have known.
It sounds like it wasn't a one off to me either. My kids have been to different nursery/ school settings and the staff have always been enthusiastic and spoke to us!
I would talk to the manager and say you're concerned she's not building a relationship with your son. Good luck

Given that she rarely does the handover herself and that you yourself rarely do pickups I'm surprised she didn't make an effort to talk to you and exchange pleasantries. Definitely speak to manager.

I have a non verbal, globally delayed (speech is biggest delay) almost 3yo and she got a SEN placement at local nursery. She is 6 weeks in.

Luckily she adores her key person and the communication with us (whilst not extensive) is positive and reassuring. Key person has also sat in on calls with SENCO and medical professionals whilst we draw up DC's short term goals. We were also lucky enough to be able to have a settling in period where I could go in with DC (only needed to go in with her first 2 days!)

As DC's advocate, I wouldn't think twice about asking to change key person for the reasons you give. My daughter cannot speak for herself so its up to me to do it for her.

Raise the issue. You aren't happy. Don't just push your gut feelings aside.

I very much agree with others who’ve said she should absolutely be being enthusiastic and welcoming with a parent. She should be telling you how his day has been, with a smile on her face! We can all have bad days, though it sounds like this is much more than that, but she needs to hide that at work and get on with it with a pleasant manner. As a PP said, some people just shouldn’t work with kids.
My eldest had a different key worker for the last year at nursery, and she was very grumpy, never had a smile on her face etc. By then though he had a brilliant relationship with all the other staff members, and was very settled and happy, so I didn’t bother doing anything about it. Had it been his first year, or my youngest when she started, I would definitely had said something.

My son is similar to yours but older -
It's so hard when they're non verbal
Because as you say you don't know how he feels. Personally If I'd had this experience with someone involved in his care - let alone his key worker then I'd be requesting someone else and speaking to the powers that be x

Just to add thinking about it , if she's that unenthusiastic and impersonal at pick up / drop off then what's she really like in her job? Children like ours need a lot of encouragement and praise and work! She should be passionate about helping your son - winds me up people like that - I'd be wanting to ask how she even got the job in the first place

She might be better with children than adults but it's definitely worth making the manager aware so they can support the staff member and find out if there are any issues with their relationship with your child. It isn't a problem to request a different key person and not unusual. Parents need to feel comfortable too. We've had this for various reasons, such as they have already had a good relationship with a staff member for an older sibling, for example.

I work in a nursery and the things that are expected of us for nmw is a joke. Plus I've dealt with horrible/snobbish/ difficult parents so it works both ways.

@Ilovegreentomatoes, in this setting you are acting 'in loco parentis' so I'm not sure what could have been asked of you in terms of care for the children in your setting that you would feel is a joke if that's the part of your job you're referring to - I don't doubt you're not paid well but that's for you to dispute or train to further yourself . These parents don't sound horrible or snobbish so I don't see how your personal experience there is relevant to this mums issue.

I wouldn't like it either, my youngest has been diagnosed with ASD (while still at nursery) and all the staff were absolutely wonderful with him and about him and he could be a real challenge!
I hope the situation is resolved in one way or another for you and your DS.

Just how she may be coming across without being aware? Some parents would probably argue they are easy to talk to when quite honestly there not.Of course it may not be the case here but some parents can send of a bad vibe as well even if they think they don't.

And yes as an unappreciated nursery worker I am actively seeking new employment this profession has a very high staff turn over due to lack of respect and poor pay.

I've got autistic twins, much older than your DS as they're now 11yrs old.

My son was non-verbal until around the age of 5 and his key worker in nursery was wonderful, like a surrogate mum. Autism was quite new to them, and they hadn't had any ASC children before so there were some things that they didn't get quite right. But throughout it all, they were warm, friendly and communicative, and I could clearly see their affection for my son.

You've had lots of good advice here. The thing about the ear defenders squashing his ears concerns me because that's an objective measure which indicates a lack of care and/or attention to his wellbeing.

How does your DS seem towards her? Does he seem happy to see her or does he seem to particularly trust her? Again, I know it's tricky with ASC children, especially while young, as social interaction can be very different. Is there any way you could turn up early and watch their interactions?

We've had lots of key workers over the years, some have been wonderful but others, not so much. At times I've been given excuses by the school about the key worker such as "they're just not great with parents but different with the children" and "communicating about the day isn't what they're paid to do" blah blah. Have to say though, every time I've had a gut instinct, I've been right.

If you decide to ask for a change you don't need to make it personal. You can just say you don't think her personality is the right fit for your son's needs.

You don’t ‘go about finding out’ if the NW is ok the spectrum because it is absolutely NONE of your business! I can’t believe you think you’re entitled to know her private medical history

Ask for a different key worker if you don’t like her, it’s not difficult to articulate your feelings.

@CaptainCabinets

You don’t ‘go about finding out’ if the NW is ok the spectrum because it is absolutely NONE of your business! I can’t believe you think you’re entitled to know her private medical history

Ask for a different key worker if you don’t like her, it’s not difficult to articulate your feelings.

Did you mean to sound so rude? It might not be our 'business' but if that is the reason for her coming across badly then it benefits everybody involved to know that there is a legitimate reason for it.

I'm sure we won't be the only parents who will have concerns as time goes on. If she does have ASD and that manifests as her coming across in a poor light to parents when in fact she's amazing with the kids then we will of course adjust our expectations.

Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to observe her (or anybody else) interacting with DS as when the kids are dropped off parents aren't to go any further than the entrance. He joined the nursery during the pandemic so this is protocol / covid risk management.

I work in a nursery and the things that are expected of us for nmw is a joke. Plus I've dealt with horrible/snobbish/ difficult parents so it works both ways

We're definitely not snobbish or difficult, nobody else at the nursery appears uncomfortable/grumpy around us.

I don't mean to be rude but why would you apply to work in a nursery in the first place if you resent the work and pay? Your comment has got me wondering whether the nursery worker in my OP feels the same as you do and that's why she seems the way she does.

How does your DS seem towards her? Does he seem happy to see her or does he seem to particularly trust her?

It's hard to say as I virtually never see them together for more than a split second. It's usually always the nursery manager accompanying DS from the lobby to the hall, or one of the younger nursery assistants. Yesterday was the first chance I got to observe her interacting with him.

It may well be that she's good with the children and we just haven't seen that side
Or she might be worse when the parents aren't looking. I don't like the sound of her at all. She sounds irritable and as if she lacks empathy with the ear defender thing. I'd request a move to a different key worker.

She might be a stroppy mare who isn't suited to the job and doesn't enjoy it

@Mum2threee

I'd like to know whether she indeed is on the spectrum or not as that would be hugely beneficial to know.

How would you go about finding out? It's a difficult one.

Mention your concerns to the manager but you absolutely cannot ask about her medical history. Surely you know that?

And as for the assumption she is on the spectrum, what is the based on? Given you (and your DH) have such little contact and interaction with her?

“ Did you mean to sound so rude? It might not be our 'business' but if that is the reason for her coming across badly then it benefits everybody involved to know that there is a legitimate reason for it.

I'm sure we won't be the only parents who will have concerns as time goes on. If she does have ASD and that manifests as her coming across in a poor light to parents when in fact she's amazing with the kids then we will of course adjust our expectations.”

OP, I have to say I agree with the PP who said it’s not for you to pursue.

I understand why you might feel as if you want to know whether she’s autistic but it definitely represents an invasion of her privacy. And also, it’s kind of irrelevant. She’s either fab with your son - or she’s not. Doesn’t matter if she’s autistic herself, if she’s not clicking with him, the reason is irrelevant.

As far as communication with parents is concerned, she doesn’t need to be autistic for that to be an area she finds hard. Your goal is to decide whether you think she’s the right person for your son - her neurodiversity is irrelevant to that.

If you’ve got any doubts at all, ask the nursery manager for a preliminary chat in private. You might be able to judge a lot by her response.

In my experience staff that aren’t good with parents tend to not be good with children either - I’d not be happy with the interaction you describe and certainly would be speaking to the nursery manager.

The ear defender thing suggests she doesn't care about making him uncomfortable. I think you are being a bit too understanding. Eg. Thinking maybe she's got ASD. Maybe she's lovely with kids when we're not there. More likely she's worse when you're not there and he can't tell you.