To use a nativity set that is not ethnically accurate?

[Yellownotblue]

Old fashioned nativity sets typically have the family as white, and the three kings as Asian/brown/black. The black wise man is literally black.

We are a mixed heritage household, but the nativity set doesn’t bother me as that’s what I grew up with. Would it make you wince, or am I okay to use it? Not that I’m planning to have any guests at Christmas, judgemental or otherwise - it just got me thinking.

YANBU: it’s okay to use the set
YABU: don’t use it

@Goosefoot I think that poster was joking!

They can be blond hair blue eye and have brown skin tone too

It's possible but highly unlikely in the Middle East in the 1st century AD.

@CentrifugalBumblePuppy

I think Nativity sets tend to echo the region or culture you’ve purchased it in.

Mine is a pretty European-centric/CofE variant (white, brunette Mary, bearded Joseph, Wise Men are of African & Middle Eastern skin tones, no coal black Kings in sight. Camels, donkeys, sheep. And a few added characters from places I’ve worked around the World.

Ours also contains The Christmas Stegosaurus. He appeared over 20 years ago. It’s best not to ask.

We have a Christmas Triceratops. DDad (RIP) pulled him out of a cracker and tied a bit of string around him (or her - it's not possible to tell). We have used him as a tree decoration for twenty years now.

If I decided to make an ethnically correct nativity, I couldn't use him as he is Barbie pink and by no stretch was Triceratopses all one colour head to toe let alone Barbie pink.

I have seen quite a few Jesus’ in my time (used to work for the church) and they are represented in most colours and races, sometimes depending on the colour/race of the ‘owner’ of the particular representation. It doesn’t matter really. Never seen a female one though (just pondering there).

Does the Bible say Jesus was not trans?

Would it make you wince, or am I okay to use it?

I think you'd be better off not worrying so much about what other people think of you. You know you're not racist. If other people are going to ascribe that characteristic to you because they're caught up in a culturally-specific narrative about the relevance of historical accuracy to fictional representation, that's their problem, not yours.

There's a range of skin tones there, and all the characters have positive associations. If all your wise men looked anglo-saxon too and you had a range of dark-skinned devils in a depiction of hell on the next shelf down, you might have something to worry about. Talk to your kids about how nativity scene depictions usually reflect local ethnicity if you like, add in a bit about how we can all connect to the god-aspect of Jesus if that's your jam, and you're grand.

Or if you really must fret about this, do the thing properly and know that some people will also judge the shit out of you because the only female representation in there is the mother role!

@CherryPavlova

I get where you’re coming from but in Christian traditions all people are created in the image of God. I don’t think he would be too bothered as long as people remembered why we have Christmas.

We have a plain olive wood one, a very brightly coloured one that is probably more representative, a Victorian glass set without colour and a Willow tree one without colour.

If I was not white I might want my children to see non white angels perhaps. Could you paint your set? Could you make mixed heritage angels for the tree?

I think it would be great if all children saw depictions on angels that are non-white though, right? Well, all children that see depictions of angels anyway! We don’t have a nativity so not an issue here.

[quote melisande99]@Goosefoot I think that poster was joking![/quote]
Possibly, but I have seen that idea seriously proposed on more than one occasion before.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I have seen quite a few Jesus’ in my time (used to work for the church) and they are represented in most colours and races, sometimes depending on the colour/race of the ‘owner’ of the particular representation. It doesn’t matter really. Never seen a female one though (just pondering there).

I think this comes down to how Christianity understands the body and the material world. Naive representations of Jesus where he reflects the artist's culture and ethnicity are seen as ok because they aren't really meant as a statement that he wasn't a real and embodied historical person.

On the other hand, deliberate depictions of Jesus, or Mary and Joseph, which are deliberately presented as something non-historical as a way of asserting that the material or embodied element is either unimportant, or imaginary, or anything like that, are seen as bordering on Docetism, or actually Docetist.

I have a beautiful set given by a French friend, it's from Provence and all the figurines are from the South of France. It's clearly not remotely accurate, but it's a very traditional one and it's beautiful.

If someone gets offended by that, they don't have to visit us again.

I cannot believe some comments on this thread.

It is your right to use any nativity set you like in your house.

It is however your responsibility as a parent to expose your child to the fact that different races can be cast in all possible roles. Nativity set is a good opportunity, would seize it if I was christian.

Saying that this is all symbolic and therefore it is just as well to use all white set with the exception of the "magical negro" wise man...mind boggles honestly. This kind of symbolism worked well in the previous generation where these sets originated. You will do better by your kids if you prepare them to live in our actual world where these stereotypes are no longer working...
Kids are quite literal. They don't do symbolism very well.

@Goosefoot oh, wow btw I really enjoy your contributions around MN. When I see your username I always know there'll be something worth reading! No pressure

I was disconcerted to see this set foir sale in Australia. images.app.goo.gl/cYmi8evEAzhxogog8

I've got a green baby Jesus and some purple-faced Wise Men iin mine - painted many years ago by toddler ds.

It is OK to use the set. We do not know the skin colour of Jesus, his mother Mary or any of those who visited them.

It is however your responsibility as a parent to expose your child to the fact that different races can be cast in all possible roles.

for the nativity? Obviously
It doesn't mean we HAVE to buy a multi-cultural let alone an ethnically accurate nativity set.

For the role of snow white?
No... It's becoming ridiculous to cast anyone just to pretend you are fashionable.

@nosswith

It is OK to use the set. We do not know the skin colour of Jesus, his mother Mary or any of those who visited them.

Yeah, true mystery. They might have been green for all we know. Most likely though they looked like south mediaterranians. Unless G-d graced them with fairer complexion by the way of special gift.

@PeggyPorschen

It is however your responsibility as a parent to expose your child to the fact that different races can be cast in all possible roles.

for the nativity? Obviously
It doesn't mean we HAVE to buy a multi-cultural let alone an ethnically accurate nativity set.

For the role of snow white?
No... It's becoming ridiculous to cast anyone just to pretend you are fashionable.

You don’t have to buy a multicultural set, I just think it might be a very good idea. Fir the sake of your kids, not because I think someone else has a license to judge you. Using a Snow White argument one can say blonde Mary is ridiculous.

Fir the sake of your kids

why? Strictly no need or no point.

But as I said, our nativity set is from the South of France with French characters, that probably qualifies as multicultural

[quote RiceBubbless]I was disconcerted to see this set foir sale in Australia. images.app.goo.gl/cYmi8evEAzhxogog8[/quote]
I love it! That's another one on my list.
Together with a Christmas Steggie like @CentrifugalBumblePuppy's handsome fellow.

@PeggyPorschen

It is however your responsibility as a parent to expose your child to the fact that different races can be cast in all possible roles.

for the nativity? Obviously
It doesn't mean we HAVE to buy a multi-cultural let alone an ethnically accurate nativity set.

For the role of snow white?
No... It's becoming ridiculous to cast anyone just to pretend you are fashionable.

Why can’t a black girl or woman be cast as Snow White? How is that different from Hamilton, for instance- where the casting is colour blind?

That kangaroo set is different I think it’s brilliant and I’m Christian, all our nativity sets are special because either children have helped paint them they’re brought by friends or passed down, let’s enjoy them for what they are, they show the birth of Jesus.

Our nativity was knitted my my ling dead granny's neighbour (who was mad as a rat in a sack but great fun) she KNITTED us a nativity with left over wool. So Mary, Joseph, the Cows, Sheep Kings and Shepherds are various shades of blue yellow green red and orange.. the crib is mauve (mostly) .. it's one of our families most prized possessions.. a real rainbow depiction which I think is perfect.. (Jesus is mostly pink ) .

@Lcats

I cannot believe some comments on this thread.

It is your right to use any nativity set you like in your house.

It is however your responsibility as a parent to expose your child to the fact that different races can be cast in all possible roles. Nativity set is a good opportunity, would seize it if I was christian.

Saying that this is all symbolic and therefore it is just as well to use all white set with the exception of the "magical negro" wise man...mind boggles honestly. This kind of symbolism worked well in the previous generation where these sets originated. You will do better by your kids if you prepare them to live in our actual world where these stereotypes are no longer working...
Kids are quite literal. They don't do symbolism very well.

A heck of a lot of adults are quite literal these days it seems, but maybe in part because we don't introduce other was of thinking to children. In my experience most young kids don't think much about the physical markers of ethnicity of nativity sets, they don't have the historical or geographical awareness to do so, but once they are old enough to take note, they are also old enough to understand that in art, people don't always look the way they looked in real life.

[quote melisande99]@Goosefoot oh, wow btw I really enjoy your contributions around MN. When I see your username I always know there'll be something worth reading! No pressure [/quote]
Oh, thanks, that's very nice! I'll probably say something silly now...