To use a nativity set that is not ethnically accurate?

[Yellownotblue]

Old fashioned nativity sets typically have the family as white, and the three kings as Asian/brown/black. The black wise man is literally black.

We are a mixed heritage household, but the nativity set doesn’t bother me as that’s what I grew up with. Would it make you wince, or am I okay to use it? Not that I’m planning to have any guests at Christmas, judgemental or otherwise - it just got me thinking.

YANBU: it’s okay to use the set
YABU: don’t use it

We have one from Lanka Kade and it is more accurate - not only the Wise Men have brown skin and nobody is coal coloured.

Thanks drspouse, we also have a similar wooden one, but I’d like to use the old one too. It’s got loads of characters and the kids love to play with them (as did I as a kid).

I made a Lego nativity set....Everyone is mini figs

I get where you’re coming from but in Christian traditions all people are created in the image of God. I don’t think he would be too bothered as long as people remembered why we have Christmas.

We have a plain olive wood one, a very brightly coloured one that is probably more representative, a Victorian glass set without colour and a Willow tree one without colour.

If I was not white I might want my children to see non white angels perhaps. Could you paint your set? Could you make mixed heritage angels for the tree?

Mine features felt mice. They’re white.

I'd use the old one, and have a conversation with your DC that it reflects a bias of the era.

It's still very very hard to get ethnically accurate ones- a local vicar campaigned and lobbied manufacturers to get a church size one (12" figures) in authentic skin tones.

I would still use it especially as it's from your own childhood. It's not really a big deal imo

How can anyone be sure what would be an "ethnically accurate" representation of these personages? The three kings/wise men especially are quite mysterious characters about whom we know very little. There are many centuries of myth and interpretation around these stories - who is to say they are less valid than the idea that you could literally find and dig up Balthazar, do an Ancestry DNA test, and paint his figurine the "correct" colour? It seems rather too literal-minded.

Melisande it's more that Joseph mary and Jesus are blonde and blue eyed. Exceptionally unlikely!

Everyone except possibly the wise men (who travelled from afar) would be semitic in appearance.

I think there's a fair amount of debate on exactly what skin colour various peoples from this area would have been. Chances are that there would have been a mix and they would have seen a mix. I don't think the ancient world was all that bothered about skin colour, except for extreme white and extreme black, and they were viewed more as exotics than prejudice. Can you paint them whatever you want?

I really wouldn't worry about it.
I made a nativity scene using shuttlecocks wrapped in felt once. They were all white shuttlecocks too :-o

@NopeNopeNopeNopeNope

Mine features felt mice. They’re white.

Whitewash! 🙃

@picklemewalnuts

Melisande it's more that Joseph mary and Jesus are blonde and blue eyed. Exceptionally unlikely!

Well, I get what you mean, but at the same time, it's not impossible either. But yes, I agree, historically, artistic portrayals of the Holy Family have not prioritised (probable) ethnic verisimilitude. I think artists were trying to make the stories universal by using aesthetic conventions, rather than stressing the point that "these people came from a different country and they looked different to you".

I remember reading many years ago, I think it was from Umberto Eco, that nativity sets were made to resemble the local culture. Italian ones look like old Naples figures, Provence ones look like Santons (local carvings), etc. and are dressed in the fashion of the time.

@Yellownotblue

I remember reading many years ago, I think it was from Umberto Eco, that nativity sets were made to resemble the local culture. Italian ones look like old Naples figures, Provence ones look like Santons (local carvings), etc. and are dressed in the fashion of the time.

Yes, and they add local characters too,. townspeople/villagers and buildings. It kind of goes beyond the Nativity story.

This is the only set you need.

Just use them.

I am mixed race, grew up with one white and one Indian parent, and our Nativity sets were very conventional. There was definitely a black King, for sure.

If you love your Nativity set, please use it!

@TheVanguardSix

This is the only set you need.

I love it! Shame that the DCs are not ready for this level of abstraction

@picklemewalnuts

Actually there are fair skinned and blue eyed people in the Middle East, just not the dominant ethnicity. Most modern depictions are brown hair and olive skin in my experience (dd was told she couldn't be Mary because she was blonde, she was the angel Gabriel - which I'm sure should be male! School was probably though using it as an excuse to placate my right little diva who thankfully grew out of it.)

I feel that if you are happy to have more than one set, then get a really nice one that rivals the blond one, which you feel is more representative. Then your kids have an opportunity to get attached to that one as much as the blond one, and you can have conversations about it... more nuanced ones as they grow older.

And in Catalonia, they include a man doing a crap .

@Yellownotblue

Thanks drspouse, we also have a similar wooden one, but I’d like to use the old one too. It’s got loads of characters and the kids love to play with them (as did I as a kid).

How lovely to have the one you had as a child. I'd use it, even if all the people were green!

www.traidcraftshop.co.uk/ceramic-nativity-8-pieces

@funnylittlefloozie

Just use them.

I am mixed race, grew up with one white and one Indian parent, and our Nativity sets were very conventional. There was definitely a black King, for sure.

If you love your Nativity set, please use it!

I am white but agree, if you like it, use it!

I tend to find most of the nativity sets in the UK seem to have he holy family sport that salmon pink skin, with Caucasian features so a m guessing you would need to look a bit further fo r a more realistic set