Withholding contact-at what stage is it acceptable

[moirarosebabay]

Posting on behalf of a friend who isn't on Mumsnet.

3 year old child. Ex takes drugs (not to her knowledge when with the child) ex drinks when he has the child. Asked her to bring "as big as possible" box of beer when doing handover. As far as I know he drinks every night whether or not he has the child. He said when the child was born that he would not be letting the child be alone with his mother (paternal grandmother) past 3pm as she drinks every day and wouldn't be in a fit state. Ex has been taking the child and leaving him with his mother or picking him up in a taxi (after drinking) with no car seat. Is she being unreasonable to withhold contact? In Scotland if that makes any difference. Just looking for anyone with any knowledge or experience with this as my friend is not in a position to pay for a solicitor and unsure what is grounds for withholding contact. Also ex is verbally abusive to her so she is permanently worried about getting on the wrong side of him but is more concerned with protecting her child from danger. Is there a level of drunk a parent has to be before it is deemed dangerous to be in charge of a 3 year old?

I would think the line has long been crossed OP! If I were your friend I’d seek legal advice.

I agree, I would also think that she is reasonable and I usually think withholding contact is wrong x

Thanks. If she's not in a position to get a solicitor what explanation should she give the father about not allowing contact? He has previously said she is stopping him seeing his son (even though she wasn't)

Like what are the most compelling grounds? That he's drinking himself or that he's leaving her with his (alcoholic) mother when contact is meant to be for him to build a relationship with the child.

Withholding contact is acceptable - actually, it's essential - when the other NRP is either a danger to the child, incapable of looking after the child or causes more damage than they do bring joy

She is currently sending her DC into a situation where she knows neglect or abuse will occur. When you look at it from that perspective the answer is clear.

Also in Scotland, and a connection tried stopping the ex from seeing his daughter because he was off his face on drugs while looking after her. (including neighbours phoning the police because he was stoned and sitting in his car in middle of the road). He got legal aid to take her to court and won, leaving her to pay several thousand pounds in legal expenses. I'm not saying don't, but I think she should be very careful to document everything she can.

I say she stops it on the grounds that they are both drunks. If he says she is stopping him seeing his son, she says yes, I am, until you stop drinking as the sole adult in charge of a toddler.

He can say what he wants to her but realistically if he can't afford beer he is unlikely to be able to afford a solicitor himself.

Drugs taking and alcohol misuse, no court in the land would allow a child in that environment. I suggest she calls social services with her concerns also. They can investigate and strengthen her case

I think what one needs is proof. Rather then with hold contact, perhaps stop overnights, or not at his house.

Many family solicitors will give a half hour advice free of charge. She should try that.

She should also call Social Services (on Monday) and report the child as bring at risk when with dad (which the child is)

And then she should stop contact. She is risking her child’s safety. It is her duty as a mother not to allow this to continue.

Sadly I know someone who was in a similar position. The mother withheld contact as the child was a bit older in Primary school and didn't want to see the dad. The dad took mum to court for alienation. The court awarded custody to the father with weekly supervised visits for the mother. To add insult to injury the father then withheld contact and didn't stick to the court order. The mother has only seen her child a handful of times in 3 years. The system is an absolute mess. I really don't know what would be the thing to do but what I would say is you NEED EVIDENCE you can prove. Date, times, where, when . Without proof the father can accuse the mother of being a malicious liar and sometimes won't even require evidence from the father. The courts can be incredibly biased in trying to force contact with a high risk father.

Hope that when he demands she brings him large amount of beer for him at handover that your friend doesn’t oblige? Because if she does, she’s pretty much enabling his behaviour.

I know the rules/law around contact are not the same as in England and Wales but I’m pretty sure it’s perfectly acceptable to not leave children in the care of people who aren’t capable of taking care of them due to abusing drugs and alcohol. In England and Wales she could stop contact completely (i bloody would) and the onus would be on the child’s NRP (the one abusing drugs and alcohol) to take her to court for contact. Which they probably wouldn’t get- unsupervised anyway- if the RP has evidence they are not fit for contact. Not guaranteed but that’s what I was basically told would happen by my solicitor.

Also your friend needs to be careful she’s then not held responsible for knowingly leaving the children in the care of someone who’s a risk to them.

The no car seat on its own would be enough for me, I know its legal in a taxi but that's for emergencies surely, not so you can get drunk?? I wouldnt dream of sending my child to be neglected and put in danger, your friend is totally within her rights to stop contact