to be pissed off with the SEISS?

[cosmobrown]

My dh is self employed and has worked consistently in the West End Theatres for 20 years. His income was £52k, so a good income.
Now of course his work is closed and his income has dropped to £9k.
AIBU to be pissed off that our friend who is paye and normally earns £120k is getting £2.5k pm whilst not working, and we're getting nothing? Friends wife is still earning her £65k wage.

So our family income has now gone from £62k to £19k, and we get no help, but friends income has gone from £185k to £65k and they're getting help from gov.

I know we're talking about good wages here, but I'm feeling pissed off. Our savings have almost gone, and we've still got just under £20k tax to pay in Jan.

I feel for you op.

I am self employed. Some people doing my job for other companies are on payroll so presumably would get support. Others treat it as cash in hand and of course rightly didn't get support.
For my part I still only work part time but my work has increased significantly in the last 12 months or so. I get absolutely no recognition for this. My payments are based on a failed business I ran for a while and one tiny job.
I had no income during lockdown 1 and received about 50% of my monthly income fir the whole 3 months. I stupidly didn't claim the second one as only had to purchase a bit of PPE. Now of course work dried up again.
It is shit but at least DH still working.

FWIW

I had an email from HMRC today 'reminding' me to submit my tax return.

Weirdly I have been getting it all together this week so was quite relevant.

The email went on to say - if you will struggle to pay in one lump or it will make things hard for you get in touch to discuss a payment plan.

Never seen that in 20+ years of SE. Fully intend to see what they'll offer too.

Moutarde - It's spread your payment - WITH INTEREST. Yet another kick in the teeth.

Christ. Although not a surprise, this shower of shite govt have really got it in for small business for some reason.

What I can't work out is why they are deliberately not helping out the directors of small business (like us). We all pay our taxes just like employees, and it is very simple to take an average of last 3 years of dividends and pay out - up to £2500 pcm, just like the employee scheme. So why not?

There has to be a reason - to force everyone down the PAYE route??

And they wonder why some employers are abusing the furlough scheme.

There will be a lot of 'creative' tax returns this year.

It actually makes me want to start to be creative with my tax return in future (I won't) . If Risih thinks we earn more than we claim, maybe we should all start doing that.

I have NO idea why he's doing this to us. He knows exactly what he's doing. I just don't understand the £50k cap as the payments peak out at £2.5k anyway. Why can't he be fair? Why not look at peoples earnings and pay them 80% like other workers?

Anyway, our tax bill next year will be virtually nothing.

@emilyfrost

It’s shit but it’s the risk you take when you choose to be self employed.

No point being annoyed at your friend; it’s not her fault.

So if it's a matter of "risk", why does a S/e person with £49,999 of profit get the £2,500 SEISS per month, but one with a profit of £50,001 gets nothing?

Why does a worker on furlough get £2,500 however high their earnings go, when there's an arbitrary cut off of £50k for self employed?

None of it makes any sense. I can forgive them for rushing it out back in March, but they've had 8 months to iron out the anomalies and they've not.

And even worse, the s.e tradesman earning under £50k gets the £2,500 per month SEISS even if they're only barely affected. They may be earning £49k per year now, with a £1k reduction due to covid, but still legitimately claim the £2,500 per month SEISS grant, making their total income more than it would have been without Covid. It's madness.

It's the way it going theres a lot of noise about equailty but it' the more you earn the more you pay and the less you get .

I absolutely agree. The inequity is astounding, also think about public sector workers, another pay freeze announced today. So we've worked frontline services the whole time worked goodness knows how many hours unpaid overtime just to keep things running in ridiculous conditions, especially at the beginning, no government payouts, no time off to make bunting, bake cakes and bang pots on the doorstep every Thursday while getting 80% salary, annual leave refused and now get even less pay in real terms, when we're already underpaid compared to roles with a lot less responsibility in the private sector. We're meant to be grateful because at least we have jobs. It's bullshit.

@KarlKennedysDurianFruitI
absolutely agree. The inequity is astounding, also think about public sector workers, another pay freeze announced today. So we've worked frontline services the whole time worked goodness knows how many hours unpaid overtime just to keep things running in ridiculous conditions, especially at the beginning, no government payouts, no time off to make bunting, bake cakes and bang pots on the doorstep every Thursday while getting 80% salary, annual leave refused and now get even less pay in real terms, when we're already underpaid compared to roles with a lot less responsibility in the private sector. We're meant to be grateful because at least we have jobs. It's bullshit.

Granted no one in my friendship circle is company directors or anything like that .but most of use in the private sector earn less than friends in the public sector and have don't have anywhere near as good pensions sick, and holiday allowance .

Could someone tell me…
Can someone in a part time job receive up to £2.k pm?
Can someone who started a job in 2019 receive up to £2.k pm?
Can someone who earns £51k receive up to £2.k pm?
Can someone who receives a pension payment receive up to £2.k pm?

I might be wrong, but as far as I understand, only PAYE workers can receive any help. Self employed people in the same situations can't. Am I actually correct in thinking this?

@cosmobrown

Could someone tell me… Can someone in a part time job receive up to £2.k pm? Can someone who started a job in 2019 receive up to £2.k pm? Can someone who earns £51k receive up to £2.k pm? Can someone who receives a pension payment receive up to £2.k pm?

I might be wrong, but as far as I understand, only PAYE workers can receive any help. Self employed people in the same situations can't. Am I actually correct in thinking this?

Yes, you're fundamentally right. Many self employed and small businesses have been thrown to the wolves due to ridiculously arbitary and unfair eligibility rules.

I'm benefiting from SEISS and am very grateful for it. Makes me glad that I played by the book and declared all my income in full, people who have not declared their earnings at all or have under declared income will have lost out.

snog
But we declared all our income too. And paid ta at 40%, and played by the book. But we don't get any help.

tax, not ta.

@Snog

I'm benefiting from SEISS and am very grateful for it. Makes me glad that I played by the book and declared all my income in full, people who have not declared their earnings at all or have under declared income will have lost out.

Plenty of people who've declared all their income have lost out because of the illogical criteria. In fact, people who didn't declare all their income would probably be more likely to qualify if their declared income was less than £50k or less than half their total income, when their "real" income was more. The rules are crazy and actually benefit some of those who havn't been honest.

I declared all my income. Unfortunately my earnings increased from 2019. I gey no benefit from that. My whole 3 months payment was 50% of a months recent earnings.
Wish I claimed 2nd grant now but didn't as I only had to buy PPE.
Will be claiming 3rd as lost another months money.

There are other reasons for missing out on SEISS too - like having more earnings from PAYE than self employment in a year (which can happen to self employed people in creative industries - run a course on PAYE for a few months, then get some self-employed individual gigs and you’re entitled to nothing). It’s deeply unfair, and hitting those on very low earnings too.

A universal wage would have worked better - then those who are key workers and working under great stress or danger of getting infected would be receiving more during lockdowns, and everyone else would have a more equal basic income to see them through.

But they have to set the line somewhere. I assume they thought people who earn more than £50K are likely to have savings

Hahahahahahaha
51k really isn't much if you're the sole earner in a family
Around 38k after tax.

Average rent of a 3 bed home in my area - 15k a year
Council tax 1.5k
Utilities 2k
Commuting costs - variable, but a train ticket to the city is 4k from my location
Petrol for the year around 1k
Food 6k
Broadband & phone contracts 1k
Petrol/insurance/tax 2k

Im up to 32k already.
So that leaves 6k a year for clothes, uniform, shoes, and debts, Xmas & birthdays, days out, emergencys.
I haven't factored in pension contributions either.
I'm not seeing alot to be put away for a rainy day here!

I'm with you OP. It's a fucking disgrace

I have my own Ltd Co (I'm the only employee) so denied SEISS also denied furlough on first two phases due to being available for statutory directors duties. It's completely discriminatory.

Sorry but I’m really confused...if I you’ve been self employed for 20 years earning over the threshold (which you have been from what you’re saying) then you would have been entitled to 8k in May, 7k in August and then the same at the end of November. Why have you not been entitled to this? My husband is self employed with reduced/no income and has relied these payments no question asked

Like @TheDogsMother DH sole family earner and director of ltd company. Income reduced to almost nothing this year and we've got fuck all Gov assistance.

Sooperdooper19
You cannot claim a penny if you're SE and earn £50,000.01 or more.
Like Greysparkles says - it's not a huge amount to save for a years worth of loss of income. Our industry has not opened at all since March.

I stated, on here (on March 3rd to be exact) that if we did have to lockdown due to the pandemic that a UBI was the only long term, fair and easy to administer scheme for employees and SME's. I was told I was ridiculous (mostly by the Self Employed/Small business owners) and that as a country we had rejected socialism and I was naive. I am a public sector worker in the NHS doing about 50 hours a week at the moment. I have watched my sister who works in a private dental practice enjoy furlough and do up her garden, my best friend pay off all her personal debts with her SE grants and loans (she is a SE cleaner) and a couple who own an estate agents use their SE money to do up their family home. I have also delivered a food parcel to my friend who owned a new brewery that earned more than the 50k cut off in 2017-2019. He has literally watched his business pour down the drain. And my poor dad, who has cancer and was too sick to work as a SE gardener last year got nothing so my mum has to go FT at 60, at her job in ASDA. I can not feel anything but 'Well the government told them to go through this scheme. They created the winners and losers'.

It isn't about private versus public sector or business owners versus PAYE. It is about the government refusing to be equitable on ideological grounds.