"I hope you're proud of yourself"

[Dilbertian]

Why is this a shaming statement? AIBU to think that people should be allowed pride in their achievements?

It's not saying there's anything wrong with pride any more than 'well I hope you're happy now' is saying there is anything wrong with happiness when it's used in a similar context.

It's just sarcasm basically.

You’re asking two different questions.

“I hope you’re proud of yourself” is a shaming statement because it is used when something has done something that is morally questionable.

Of course people can be proud of their achievements, and celebrate those achievements. It doesn’t mean they don’t make questionable life choices though

It’s not used in that context though.

“Well done” can be just that or in insult depending on the tone and situation.

Ummm. I'm going to assume English isn't your first language. Or else you clearly don't have any idea how sarcasm works.

Because 'I hope you're proud of yourself!' is only used when someone has done something that most people would think of as shoddy behaviour.

It's intended to demonstrate that most ordinary people would be embarrassed by their actions. It's not ever used to describe an actual achievement.

It's sarcasm. See also: "I hope you're happy now."

Sheba to which Chandler replied to Monica "Oh, I hope you are happy too honey" :) :)

It depends entirely on the context.

english is complex at the best of times.

Totally depends on tone and context

It isn't shaming when used in the context of actually being proud of your achievements. When it's used like that, it is a positive thing: 'you've got your degree. I hope you're proud, you should be. You worked hard!'

When used negatively, it's said with sarcasm for something you very much shouldn't be proud of.

YABU

You’ve completely missed the context and tone

It means "I hope you're proud of yourself, no-one else will be".

@Wannakisstheteacher

Ummm. I'm going to assume English isn't your first language. Or else you clearly don't have any idea how sarcasm works.

It isn't.

So how do express that someone has the right to be proud of themselves without sounding sarcastic?

I could, and do, make this statement to my dc in a warm tone of voice and with a genuine smile, so that they understand that I mean exactly what the words mean.

But I've only ever heard it used by others sarcastically to shame someone. And written of course there is no warm tone, no smile, just the colloquialism which is always sarcastic.

And I'm also think about this statement in the context of trying to explain sarcasm to an autistic teenager.

I guess I'd say 'you should be proud of yourself' to say it sincerely. You're right, the 'I hope' version is only used sarcastically.

Well, it's all about context. If the behaviour in question would generally be seen to be positive, like an exam result, then "i hope you're proud of yourself" is a positive statement. If it's negative behaviour, like telling your sibling to get fucked, then "i hope you're proud of yourself" comes with the unspoken "because I'm definitely not"

Well OP the only difference is the tone, the context and like you say, facial expression.
You could say the same about 'wow, you did really well' or anything else. When said sarcastically and in the context of something they've done which meets disapproval, that would also be negative.

Took me ages to explain sarcasm to my son!

I hope you’re proud = sarcasm when someone’s done something stupid/wrong

You should be proud of yourself = genuine praise for a job well done

@Dilbertian people express that you should be proud of your achievements by saying “well done”, “congratulations”, “I bet your parents are very proud of you” or to your DC “I’m very proud of you”. Occasionally you might get an “I bet you are proud” or “you should be proud of yourself” but people will usually add “that’s a great achievement”. Tone is also important in conveying genuine pleasure at someone achieving something versus making a sarcastic comment.

Say 'I'm proud of you and you should be too'.

If you say 'I hope you're proud of yourself' meaning that you shouldn't be it's in a negative tone. If you say it in a genuine, happy tone then it's positive.

All about tone and intention.

Unfortunately op, this is a very subtle difference that maybe is not clear to someone whose language is not English. There is no rhyme or reason for it but as explained by a PP

*I hope you’re proud = sarcasm when someone’s done something stupid/wrong

You should be proud of yourself = genuine praise for a job well done*

I can't really explain why but it is nonetheless true that the first os these statements tends to be understood as sarcasm. It can depend on tone of voice etc but I would never use the first to genuinely say that I thought someone should be proud of what they had done/achieved as I'd worry it would be misunderstood.

I'd use the second statement or something like ' I think you should be really proud of yourself'.

@Dilbertian "you should be really proud of yourself" said with a smile is nice.
"I hope you're proud of yourself" said with a hint of nastiness in the voice is not nice, it's sarcastic, you've just done something you definitely shouldn't be proud of.

If you think " why would I be happy/proud about this" then it was probably sarcasm.

I'm autistic. We're all different, but I can understand those kind of statements because I've learned the cultural context and this is a really common phrase that I've heard all my life. I don't think it will help your dc if you insist on using the 'real' meaning of this phrase if that's the only time he ever hears it used like that. At least if it's consistently used (as it is in the UK at any rate), then he will learn to decode it. You can't change a whole culture - easier to just use a slightly different phrase.

@yellowmaoampinball

I guess I'd say 'you should be proud of yourself' to say it sincerely. You're right, the 'I hope' version is only used sarcastically.

I agree, although you could also say "I hope you're proud of yourself" in genuine way too depending on the particular situation and tone of voice you used