To wonder if Americans hear spoken English differently?

[LordLancington]

Obv, not meaning that they have different eardrums or something, but more whether they don't have the same contextual associations that we do.

Started wondering this after going down the YouTube rabbithole earlier, as I sometimes do when aimlessly browsing. I watched a couple of UK drill videos out of interest - not at all my cup of tea, but I was interested to see what all the controversy was about.

I was surprised by how many Americans were saying things "can't take this seriously. Talking about stabbing people, but using the Queen's English." Thing is, it was about as far from the Queen's English as I could imagine. Proper London accents with loads of urban slang, and for want of a better term I'd have said pretty 'chavvy'.

I've read before that in studies English people tend to associate the Birmingham accent, for example, with being not particularly bright, and the Scottish accent with being 'authoritative'. However, American people found the Brummy accent as 'melodic' or 'friendly' - something like that.

@SenecaFallsRedux

The Waltons are from Virginia.

But no one on The Waltons had a Virginia accent, except the narrator. Most of the cast didn't even have a Southern accent.

Ah well, you'd have to be familiar with the accent to know that. I didn't realise. I can sort of make out a southern accent, elongated vowels mainly, but I wouldn't be able to distinguish different US states.

@Pemba

Been watching a documentary series about the Kennedys (Channel 4) recently. The whole Kennedy family seemed to have strong accents that are not like the standard American accent we (in the UK) are used to hearing today.

Can anyone tell me which accent it was? As they were wealthy people perhaps that was the mid Atlantic accent mentioned above? Not sure though, as Rose Kennedy (JFK's mother) seems to speak with a particularly pronounced accent which reminds me a bit of what I thought was a Boston accent.

But then I have seen old black and white movies where the upper class Americans seem to have an accent which sounds almost English, or sort of half way between American and English, which is where I suppose the term Mid-atlantic must come from?

Confused!

It's behind a paywall, but basically says Boston Brahmin so just as you'd expect. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-class-above-what-kennedys-accent-tells-us-about-us-presidents-past-and-present-tb7xntq8z

Yes, Mid-Atlantic accent refers to an accent that had elements of American and British. It's a bit confusing because the states that are sort of in the middle of the Eastern seaboard of the United States are called the Mid-Atlantic states. But they have a very different accent.

One of the main features of the old-fashioned Mid-Atlantic accent is that it has strong non-rhotic features. It was actually part of larger aspects of northeastern upper class culture that intentionally copied British upperclass culture.

Mc and Mac are basically same though. As far as I know they are and always were just alternative spellings of the Irish/Scots name prefix meaning 'son of', and have always been used pretty interchangeably and pronounced identically. I think it's only in the U.S. that they have for some reason been pronounced as 'mick' and 'mac'.

Americans have vastly different accents as do people in England. It is what your ear is used to. I have hard time distinguishing some regional English accents but I can tell the difference between a Bostonian and a New Yorker. I'm English but grew up in America.

There's class connotations with New York accents (this is actually a topic of academic study). Upper class New Yorkers have much more toned down accents. Many will claim not to have it at all, but if you know what to listen formostly in certain vowelsyou can hear it. Many tone it down deliberately if they grew up working or middle class. The American side of my family is from NYC and I've heard them tone their accents down depending on the company they're with.

Donald Trump grew up wealthy, but he's from Queens, and people his age tend to have stronger regional accents than the next generation. It's not super strong, but I can hear it. Now, Anthony Scaramucci has quite the accent!

Jill Biden still has a bit of a Philly accent, too.

For the old Mid-Atlantic accent go watch Katharine Hepburn films. She's the classic example.

I find it fascinating that there can be so much variation between accents! So interesting!

They started out as different languages.

I think you notice the differences from your own accent. My friend's husband was in a band, he and the band were Scottish (Glasgow) and we (English friends) only heard Scottish accents. One guy did have a different accent but we still heard Scottish,his accent was from spending a few years in Canada, the Scots could only hear the Canadian.

@LordLancington I’m definitely not a Trump supporter, but the unabashed anti-American prejudice on Mumsnet suggests 1) ignorance and 2) an inferiority complex. Might I add that Brexit doesn’t reflect well on the Brits either? Based on your comment, I could say British people are shocking xenophobic, but I’ll be more fair than you were to us and fight against that temptation.

As for OP, yes, your British accent alone makes me think you all are smarter and classier. I’m mean that seriously too. It’s a bias in your favor — Americans tend to hold British people in high praise.

Per my lifetime, I’ve gathered that British people are wittier and generally possess richer vocabulary. Educationally, I’d say the US prizes utilitarianism, while the UK prizes derivatives and cultural knowledge. That’s probably too simple of a delineation, so I am eager to be told otherwise.

@SenecaFallsRedux

Speaking of accents and the US election, can British people hear the difference in accent between the current occupant of the White House and his soon to be successor? They are two of the most distinctive regional accents in the US, although in both cases have been smoothed out to some extent by the speakers.

Yep, trump and Biden sound very different to me. As for that gnarled up Guiliani. He sounds like a comic character. I have a really good ear for accents. Can often determine accents like 'sounds like a Canadian who has lived in Germany as a child' kind of thing. And more than often be correct. Australia/South Africa/NZ Canadian/US, French/Belgian Glaswegian/Edinburgh no problem. But I can't get the whole Birmingham/Walsall difference and lots of South American's speaking English can sound similar to my untrained ear. I used to enjoy watching people talk without being able to hear them and figure out from their facial movements what language they were speaking. I think it comes from having parents from two different cultures/countries and growing up in a third country. So as a pp said, it's a trained ear thing. Not learning accents. Funny thing is I can hear bum notes but can't sing.

I agree about the Brummy accent you see on tv being friendly-sounding to Americans. My DH is British (I'm American), and I find Northern accents just sound more friendly than Southern ones, but I lived up north, so I just prefer it. But I do find it hard to differentiate some words still. My DH pronounces poll, pool, Paul, pole and paw all the same!

American colleagues couldn't tell difference between me, a native English speaker and a native Italian speaking English with a strong Italian accent

I don't think Brummie counts as a Northern accent? It's a Midlands accent? Tho' Southerners are sometimes ridiculed as thinking the North starts at Watford Gap on the M1. (Watford has a station on the London Underground.)

A pp said she doesn't need subtitles for UK TV/films. I can cope with Corrie but need it for Peaky Bloinders and Rab C Nesbit.

American colleagues couldn't tell difference between me, a native English speaker and a native Italian speaking English with a strong Italian accent

Wow - that really is odd. I speak several languages. I guess I might find it hard to distinguish between some accents in those languages, or find some harder to understand, but it's rare that I have trouble with any accent in English, and I think I'm pretty good at noticing the difference in sound between American accents, even if I often wouldn't be able to tell where they came from.

@LordLancington

Also, Americans see the Brits as somewhat prissy.

This I don’t understand.

Current world boxing champ is British, and our soldiers are renowned for being many times tougher than our US equivalents - I believe we often assist in training American soldiers. The SAS are basically the most nails bastards in the entire world.

The UK and US army face off every year at Westpoint, and the Americans have only won the competition twice in the past 25 years!

Your average person in the US has never heard of the SAS, and no one would believe they're tougher than all the US Special Forces units, or that British soldiers are generally tougher.

What comes to mind when Americans think of Brits? The Queen. Downton. James Bond. Hugh Grant rom coms. Harry Potter. All marvelous but all a bit...refined. So well spoken. Hence the stereotypes, it's not really fair but it's just that Americans see such a limited slice of Britishness.

I remember once being out with my sister and her then American boyfriend. We got talking to an Australian. He could have been from New Zealand, rather than Australia, but from his accent it was definitely one of the two. The American couldn't understand why we all burst out laughing when he asked the stranger what part of England he was from!

I also remember being in the American south once and talking to someone who thought my accent was from New England.

Loving all the Wire references! When I moved to London I had something close to a Baltimore accent and had to adapt that real quick so I could be understood by some people.

Idris Elba absolutely nailed his accent, people legit freaked out when they found out he was British.

I suppose another example of all this would be Game of Thrones. I think most Americans just thought everyone sounded British but they actually were trying to match different regional accents to different parts of Westeros.

@LordLancington

Do any of you ever see a show called The Wire? That blew me away - I could not understand a bloody word. Wild.

Funnily enough, I started watching it recently and had to keep rewinding it for the same reason. It was as difficult as Matthew McMumblehey in True Detective.

Watch The Wire with the subtitles on.

But, as a PP said, most of the main actors are British

I remember thinking this when I lived in Atlanta 10 years ago. I got talking to someone who loved supernanny and she mentioned how lovely and cultured the nanny sounded and how that was part of the programmes appeal .

DH and I looked at each other thinking of her Essex accent and her tendency to say ' unaccettable instead of unacceptable, her use of 'f' instead of 'th' sounds and her dropping of 't's. Her accent is definitely not posh but the American I spoke to perceived it as proper upper class English pronunciation

I can tell the difference between an Irish culchie (country) accent, and a Dublin accent. But to many people it's all Oirish.

Same with British accents, I guess.

I don't think Brummie counts as a Northern accent?

(If your only experience of "brummie accents" is Peaky Blinders, best skip this bit)

There isn't just "a" brummie accent. Ozzy Osbornes Aston accent is marked different to Josie Lawrences lilt. Or Frank Skinners West Brom edge which is really Yam Yam from the Black Country (and that's a pub fight in itself) ... Walsall, Wolverhampton - Noddy Holder for example.

Then you drift north to Stoke and the Potteries and it shifts again.

Your average person in the US has never heard of the SAS, and no one would believe they're tougher than all the US Special Forces units, or that British soldiers are generally tougher.

When I was in the US a naval officer showed me an old leave pass. On the back it had: "No booze. No broads. No Brits".

When I travelled in the US with my Irish friend, a lot of people couldn't tell the difference between our accents and thought I was Irish as well (I'm a Londoner, reasonably posh sounding but with some London traces I expect). My friend always got the much warmer reception as they told her all about their great great granny who was born in Connemara...

On the subject of subtitles, I often have them on because there seems to be a lot of mumbling on TV (or I'm just getting old).

I had them on for 'my kitchen rules New Zealand' and the subtitles were not always right.

I was once waiting for a plane with a group of Americans in Chile, I think they had done a semester abroad, one sated to the group that he had 'lost his accent', I cracked up and said, "Even I can tell you are from the South" he really thought he'd lost his accent.

A lot of Americans confuse my accent with Australian. I’ve heard it’s a common mix up.
My accent is generally SE with a slight SW twang.

"On the subject of subtitles, I often have them on because there seems to be a lot of mumbling on TV (or I'm just getting old)."

In some countries, it's quite normal to have on-screen subtitles when people have strong accents and use dialect words. I think it's a bit taboo here though and I've only seen it a couple of times.