To think DH's view is far too grim about the zoos

[Return2thebasic]

I spotted in the news that the zoo we visited a month ago might end up close permanently if the lockdown is extended any further.

That promoted me to ask DS if he wants to chip in with his pocket money while I match his donation by x2. DS agreed to make a £10 donation, so we together could feed a sealion for a day (shocking!).

I told DH in the evening, as I thought my improvising was pretty smart. We helped the animals and it also gave DS an opportunity to show kindness. But DH's response was like "The zoo is owned by someone. That someone is probably quite rich and the zoo is a profitable business for him in normal time. By giving money to the zoo, you are just helping a millionaire to avoid dipping into his own pocket to feed the animals." ...Not exactly his words, but something like that.

I just can't help but feeling his view is too grim. Not only spoiled my good feeling, but also made me too confused to be either proud or feeling stupid.

What's your view on this? Shall I feel stupid?

We have donated to zsl specifically for their conservation work overseas which is normally funded by a voluntary surcharge on the entry tickets. Zoos are very different from even a generation ago. At Christmas we are taking (let's hope) all our girls to the zoo despite the youngest being 19, their choice.

i think Zoos have had to change, they are about breeding programmes now and protection of wild life

He’s got a point.

Zoos are a necessary evil. In an ideal world sure, let's get rid of them all but the reality is many species - who have been taken to the brink by human activities - are only surviving because of the incredibly important conservation work many zoos undertake. Most are not owned by millionnaires but are charities.

But sure, let's all hang on to the idea that zoos are what they were 50 years ago, shut them all down and just stop protecting endangered animals.

Is he able to name one of these millionaire zoo owners? (Or discover the name of.)

@lyralalala I’ve just read the guardian article about South Lakes. Absolutely appalling! It’s an outrage that that was allowed to go on. What’s the situation now I wonder?

Someone mentioned Five Sisters - we went recently and I was so impressed with the stories about the bears and lions. The public helped to raise money for three (male I’m sure) lions to be brought over from Belgium (I think) after it was made illegal to have them in circuses there.

@schrodingersImmigrant I was there about 5-6 years ago. I'm glad to see now they have a larger enclosure, though this only opened in 2017 when they received the elephant bull. The females suffered for many years prior to his arrival.

If you want grim, visit a zoo in Asia.

Singapore excepted.

I have a degree in wildlife conservation and have many friends who work in conservation both in the uk and abroad, as well as friends that work in zoos. If you spoke to any conservationist you would find that many support zoos, they bring in valuable funding and research. There are lots of efforts to release captive animals into the wild. Gorillas, pandas and whales come to mind. The problem with the idea of helping breeding in the wild etc is you have to contend with poaching, farming, deforestation, palm oil forests, corrupt governments. Many of the conservative efforts going on are funded by donations made while people are at zoos etc. Its not simple black and white. Maybe some of the people that are so against zoos should educate themselves about animal conservation.

[quote Sickofmysalary]@lyralalala I’ve just read the guardian article about South Lakes. Absolutely appalling! It’s an outrage that that was allowed to go on. What’s the situation now I wonder?

Someone mentioned Five Sisters - we went recently and I was so impressed with the stories about the bears and lions. The public helped to raise money for three (male I’m sure) lions to be brought over from Belgium (I think) after it was made illegal to have them in circuses there.[/quote]
There is a new team in charge. They seem to be more working toward becoming a proper accredited collection rather than having a ego in charge.

Most of their “big” animals are rescues and they fundraiser. Their snow leopard pair came from Belgium as well - they were being smuggled by a private dealer (I can’t remember where) and held in Belgium until a suitable home found and an enclosure could be built.

Nature is full of stress and suffering, then add in human cruelty against wild animals.

Zoos that are doing things wrong should absolutely be criticised and the law should be changed to prohibit such wrongdoing. But it's naive and oversimplifying to think of zoo animals as caged while wild animals live an idyllic life.

I support Jersey zoo and have read all of Gerald Durrell’s books.

Go and read golden bats and pink pigeons plus the aye aye and I for a start to find out about species that have literally been pulled back from the brink of extinction to points where those species are now off the critically endangered lists.

Also, when Jersey became a wildlife trust they actively sought not to have animals which were there purely for show purposes. Their work was based around conservation and education on those species which might otherwise slip through the cracks because they’re seen as not exciting enough. Of course they had to start with those animals which drew in the general public, but they now have no lions and other big cats for instance because there are other species which are more critically endangered and for which conservation is more important.

Also, for those who say that animals are not released back into the wild, yes, in some instances they are, but even in those instances where it is not possible, it is far preferable to have those animals in captivity than to not have them at all.

Zoo's should be banned. Zoo's is what is grimm... animal abuse. Donate money to animal welfare instead

So many people hate zoos but without them, we would have much more extinct animals

They have saved so many animals from the brink.

It’s all very well saying breed them in the wild, but there is encroaching on their territory, loss of territory, hunting and poaching all to contend with

It isn’t feasible

Those saying zoos are bad.
Just look at this page from Jersey Zoo www.durrell.org/wildlife/

Or this from another of their pages: Our field staff operate 50 projects in 18 countries around the world. We focus on islands, where unique species are under immense pressure, and on animal groups suffering the worst declines, such as primates and amphibians.

Zoos are a necessary evil. In an ideal world sure, let's get rid of them all but the reality is many species - who have been taken to the brink by human activities - are only surviving because of the incredibly important conservation work many zoos undertake.
This. It's all very well saying that the money needs to go towards keeping them alive in their habitats - go right ahead and fund that, and right ahead and stop the climatic change, stop the degeneration of those habitats. Environmentalists have only been asking for humans to change in order to meet those objectives since at least the 1960s. People have, in the main, ignored them.

I agree with your husband. the last 2 zoos we visited made me never want to go back and both are considered reputable.#

even my 9 year old ds noticed how miserable the animals were and pacing back and forth we both found it upsetting.

i

@safariboot

Nature is full of stress and suffering, then add in human cruelty against wild animals.

Zoos that are doing things wrong should absolutely be criticised and the law should be changed to prohibit such wrongdoing. But it's naive and oversimplifying to think of zoo animals as caged while wild animals live an idyllic life.

Balanced view, thumb up @safariboot.

It's really simple to talk about breeding endangered animals in the zoos should be replaced altogether by focus on preserving them in the wild. Field efforts are important, but with complex geographic and cultural implications, there ARE limitations.

If the condition of animal caring in zoos could be regulated, it would be a more effective way. There are zoos out there caring about the animals and doing their best to provide.

@Wilfy101

Op are you talking about Colchester zoo? That's our local, that zoo does so much conservation work and have programs running in struggling countries. I know people who work there who are worried sick about how they will make it through the winter. I know zoo's are emotive topics but I fully support this one, their ethics and the staff who work so hard there.

Colchester Zoo has not one or two or even three multi millionaire directors, but 4!! 2 of them are married to each other and all four have made an absolute fortune from the zoo! Yet they are continually pumping people for more and more money in the media, despite blowing through millions to extend the gift shops and reception area of the Zoo. They havent been nearly as prudent with their finances as they could have been and have made some poor financial decisions.

Blimey he’s putting a negative spin on a nice thing you did

@Ginnymweasley

I have a degree in wildlife conservation and have many friends who work in conservation both in the uk and abroad, as well as friends that work in zoos. If you spoke to any conservationist you would find that many support zoos, they bring in valuable funding and research. There are lots of efforts to release captive animals into the wild. Gorillas, pandas and whales come to mind. The problem with the idea of helping breeding in the wild etc is you have to contend with poaching, farming, deforestation, palm oil forests, corrupt governments. Many of the conservative efforts going on are funded by donations made while people are at zoos etc. Its not simple black and white. Maybe some of the people that are so against zoos should educate themselves about animal conservation.

This 100%....

Someone that actually knows rather some of the unsubstantiated rubbish of previous posters

Chester Zoo is outstanding. We became sponsors when they were struggling this year, and are proud to do so.

Yorkshire Wildlife Park didn’t mean to be a zoo at all - they were ex zookeepers opening a livery stables as a new business. Google Yorkshire Lions for the back story; the upshot is they house animals not needed in the international breeding programme because they are too young/old/have sired their limit of offspring/there’s a sex imbalance in the breeding programme/etc. It’s wonderful.

Your DH is being a misery guts.

We have a local wildlife park that started because kindly people were having unwanted animals dumped on them and has become a sort of 'holding park' for animals that are waiting for action in a breeding programme or have gone past breeding age and need somewhere to live in relative peace until their demise. It's not run by millionaires and they do their best by the animals they care for - because it's small you get to know the keepers and can see how much they love the animals.

So no, it's not ideal, but what really is in this world? There are always compromises and there is always more at play than a simple 'this thing's good and this other thing's bad', so I'm surprised that your husband holds such a black and white opinion on something so nuanced. Perhaps he would like to suggest an alternative that your son could support rather than just criticising!