Insomnia (early waking) anxiety is crushing me - AIBU to give in and get sleeping tablets today???

[LifeExperimentation]

... Like Nytols?

Went to bed at 10pm-ish last night after a purposefully relaxing evening. Woke at 12am. Couldn't get back to sleep until 3am, but only managed an hour.

I spend the awake time going from feeling rational ('oh, I have ages, I can get back to sleep') to quite quickly spiralling to feeling panic/desperate quite quickly with tight chest, racing heart.

I feel like my mental health is spiralling out of control right now, and feel miserable. For last 2 weeks, I've tried more natural remedies/meditation/getting out of bed and reading etc. I have started a CBT for insomnia workbook). The harder I try, the worse I seem to feel. I know the trying so hard doesn't work, but I'm feeling so desperate.

Could it be peri menopause? I'm 43. I have had a lot of stress recently, so maybe it's that too. I have no idea.

Has anyone quickly broke out of the grip of something like this with over the counter sleeping tablets?

@Divebar thanks will check out the podcast! I know that the fixation to fix it has been a big part of the problem and created its own (crushing) anxiety. Yesterday, I woke at 4am and told myself I was fine and I was fine… Today, was just UGH though. Sorry that you have phases of it.

@Yesyoudoknowme so great it worked for you, really encouraging to hear. I have a CBT book that I’ve just started, it’s a 6 week course, I think. I started keeping a sleep diary yesterday and the advice was really helpful when I hadn’t woken up so early. This morning, after only 2 hours of sleep after the first waking, I felt like I was going insane and didn’t have the ability to think rationally whatsoever, so the CBT advice didn’t really help in the midsts of that. I was way over hyped.

@dontdisturbmenow I hadn’t seriously considered hrt as mainly thought it was stress/anxiety (brought on by everything that’s happened since March, but made worse by recent issues). I’ll do more online research…

The prescription is for Mirtazapine.

Yes, I think I need to do more relaxation techniques during the day (including mindful breathing). Currently the breathing at night seems to make my chest want to explode with anxiety… which is not good.

I had the same problem at peri, still have it a bit now I'm menopausal but not so bad. I do take HRT but when anxious still wake up after 5 hours sleep and find it hard to go back to sleep because of racing thoughts and racing heart.

I do the following - magnesium citrate at bedtime, pillow spray, meditation if I wake up at 3am and don't get back to sleep within a few minutes, if I wake up and am awake longer than a hour I look at facebook - not advised but it seems to divert me, then i can get back to sleep for another hour or so.

I take over the counter Nytol if I've had insomnia 2 nights a row, just to break the cycle and not be utterly exhausted. I take the lower dose ones. The herbal tablets did nothing for me.

...forgot the other bits I do. No caffeine after midday, low carbs, not much liquid before bed, no electronics except kindle after 9pm.

@spoonrace thanks for your reply. Sorry you're going through this and hope the consistency of what you're doing helps you through things.

Look into magnesium. .it has helped me quite a lot, especially as you may well be in peri.

I downloaded the new Meg Matthews book about menopause onto my Kindle yesterday. Thanks for those that had said peri menopause - as even if it's not the biggest factor in all of this, it's something that I might go through in the near future.

Had a good sleep (7 hours) after the Nytol - woken by him going to the toilet at 5:09am.

@timehealsmost I currently use the Neom sleep body butter with magnesium as part of my evening ritual, which has 88mg of magnesium per 5ml of product. Hopefully that's enough? I also had some herbal supplements that I was taking before bed that has magnesium in (as well as other calming natural ingredients). Hadn't taken them long so maybe not enough time to make a difference.

Ive suffered with insomnia for years. I can always fall asleep but never STAY asleep!

Don’t forget the ADs will take several weeks to kick in so don’t start taking them and expect them to work immediately. I have to say, I’m on Citalopram with no bad side effects at all.

I find my lack of sleep increases my anxiety and then the anxiety gives me a sleepless night. It’s like a downward spiral. About once a week I take a Nytol... I get the ‘two pills’ dosage and take just one.

That seems to reset things.

Regarding menopause support supplements, there are so many out there but after looking at reviews I found the Asda ones as good as any and really reasonable. Saying that, after several years of on and off anxiety and lack of sleep etc I have finally been prescribed HRT and after a couple of months I'm finally seeing the benefits. Good luck OP.

I’d be wary of Nytol and valerian-containing over the counter meds, they can make your heart rate very slow. I also can’t wake up properly the morning after Nytol and feel horribly groggy.

Antihistamines like Phenergan are often prescribed for insomnia. And Melatonin. Both non addictive.

My GP prescribes Zopiclone (a pack every few months) I like these as I wake up refreshed with no ‘hangover’ or brain fog, and can still snap awake at night if DC wake. It can be addictive though so best used for short term periods of insomnia or to re/set your sleep pattern. I took one at 3am this morning (DC woke me up and I couldn’t get back to sleep) and I woke easily at 5:30am just before my alarm. Obviously don’t drive for at least 8 hours as it can slow your reaction times.

It's definitely a vicious cycle. Sleeping tablets are really good for breaking it and, as previous posters have said, just knowing I'll got one in the cupboard helps me to sleep better.

Please be careful with mirtazapine! Do some research before you take it. I was on it a few years ago and had no idea how much it would mess up my sleep.

It was great when I was on it, but after about 9 months I'd gained 2 stone so I tried to come off it and had the worst insomnia of my life. My body had totally forgotten how to sleep without the mirt in my system, and I would wake up every hour. It lasted weeks and I had to go back on it for a while, then use sleeping tablets to transition.

It was horrific and I wouldn't wish that on anyone! If you're worried about becoming addicted to sleeping tablets, mirtazapine is definitely not the way to go.

So many of you really thinking this is hormonal (peri/menopause). Is this really common at aged 43? No-one I know talks about it really. My sister mentioned it could be peri a couple of weeks ago, otherwise I would never have even thought about it. I’ve always been a hyper vigilant, go-go-go type so thought it was more of that, but kind of gone wrong.

@namechangebriefly Sorry you’ve been having a difficult time, but I’m glad the ADs are starting to work for you. I have been prone to depression in the past but I felt like I’d definitely been managing things well enough with lifestyle (mainly running, I start to go slightly emotionally haywire after 2 days without it…).

@RattleOfBars wow even just the valerian ones? I had the nytol last night and felt a tiny bit groggy first thing this morning but that quickly went. Will take a look at Phenergan. Less keen on the idea of Melatonin though, but obviously if it works for you that’s great.

@withgraceinmyheart Oh my god, that’s exactly what I’m worried about with mirtazapine. Sounds like you had a nightmare. Are you sleeping more normally now?

I’ve had periods of not being able to get to sleep - having one atm - and I take the herbal sleeping tablets. I don’t even think they’re OTC but they seem to break the cycle a bit.
I’m def peri menopausal but I think it has more to do with anxiety on my part.

@LifeExperimentation my sleep disturbance started at exactly your age. One of my first symptoms but I put it down to working a 24/7 shift pattern, with nights and long days the same week. Piriton helped at the time. I eventually went on HRT last year (at 48) as had other symptoms (anxiety too is correlated with peri) and it has helped hugely though I know when my levels need tweaking as often start early waking again.

wow even just the valerian ones? I had the nytol last night and felt a tiny bit groggy first thing this morning but that quickly went. Will take a look at Phenergan. Less keen on the idea of Melatonin though, but obviously if it works for you that’s great

I think everyone reacts differently to things, so maybe the Nytol will work for you, but for me valerian causes bradycardia (according to my Fitbit) and apparently this slowed heart rate is a common side effect.

Phenergan is good for anxiety as well as insomnia, it’s available over the counter but might be best to ask GP for a prescription as I think it’s a higher dose (?50mg) for insomnia and anxiety compared to low dose for allergies. It’s non addictive and widely prescribed.

I’ve never tried Melatonin but it seems to be the drug of choice for regulating patients’ sleep patterns on my ward (I work in a hospital).

Quite a lot of nurses swear by Zopiclone or Zolpidem for occasional insomnia eg when you’re adjusting from night shifts to days and vice versa. My GP initially prescribed it when I was starting Sertraline for PND (many years ago now) as I found the Sertraline caused insomnia. Some SSRIs can reduce the amount of REM and deep stage sleep you get, so do ask your doctor for an add on if the Mirtrazipine doesn’t help. Sometimes they switch patients to Trazadone (an older antidepressant that makes you very sleepy) I’ve had that in the past and found it helped.

Hope you feel better soon, sleep deprivation is awful!

The prescription is for Mirtazapine
That will definitely make you sleep! The problem is it comes with some side effects, and potentially make you very sleepy during the day too. One of the common side effects is weight gain so that has put me off it, but am very tempted to try. Let us know how you get on with it.

Stress+ perimenopause = ruined sleep.

I use nytol sometimes as a comfort blanket. It doesn't matter if I have a bad night because I know I can take one nytol tomorrow night. But what helped me the most was this book:
The Effortless Sleep Method

www.amazon.co.uk/Effortless-Sleep-Method-Incredible-Insomnia/dp/1456492543?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I read it all in a week and immediately my sleep improved massively. It is about not being afraid of not sleeping. Those who fear not being able to sleep simply cannot sleep. I know it's just a book but believe me when I say it changed my life x

Also, Sainsbury's night-time tea has valerian root in it which can help.

www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/fruit---herbal-tea/sainsburys-bedtime-infusions-tea-bags-20s-36g

Sadly, I only have bad things to say about mitrazapine too. It made me gain weight like crazy. I ate almost zero carbs and exercised like crazy and the weight still piled on and one year later, I still can't shift it. The daytime sleepiness was too much to deal with too, even on a half dose. I gotta say though it cured my depression because I was too out of it to care about anything and I cried with relief when my doctor said I could stop taking it! Since then I've dealt with depressive periods by thinking 'well at least I'm not on mitrazapine anymore.'

Sorry if this sounds too simplistic but what is your daily routine like? Ime we need physical activity to make sure we can sleep and get up no later than 7 or 8am.

So yes try meds in the very short term as a reset, but you may find getting up at 7am every day, no matter what kind of crap night you've had, walking at least 10,000 steps a day, absolutely no afternoon napping and then no alcohol on a evening (obviously occasionally but not everyday) will help.

Some people swear by hrt but imo it is better to manage issues than take medication with side effects, it is a natural process. We don't give young teens meds to delay puberty no matter how some struggle with that. That will be an unpopular opinion but honestly, try natural methods first. Exercise is great for wearing us out, even if it just brisk walking.

I use Phenergan if I have trouble sleeping for a number of nights. If I take two before bed I find waking up you feel heavy headed. One seems to do the trick. You don't feel too tired before bed but sleep is quite restful IME I'm an active sleeper and toss and turn a LOT. Depending on how I'm feeling I'll take for a couple of nights to get back on track then I'm ok.

A really simple technique if your mind is racing is to count your breaths. Breathe in = 1, breathe out =2. If your mind wanders, as soon as you notice go back to 1, 2. Repeat. You will fall asleep if you keep going back to 1,2. If i resist and keep following the thoughts for a few nights, that's when I take Phenergan the following night to get a good night's sleep.