Increased tax for WFH

[echt]

Not an AIBU, but what is theses days?

Have a look at this proposal:

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/11/staff-who-work-from-home-after-pandemic-should-pay-more-tax

I find the argument about WFH not contributing to the infrastructure interesting, as you could have a WFH employee who formerly cycled to work and brought packed lunch never contributed to the infrastructure as put forward here.

@Jayaywhynot

You can actually claim, I think its £120, tax allowance if you work from home and you only have to have wfh one or two days, check it out on the tax website, our employer issued a brief on it as we are all wfh

I've not claimed it as I don't want to find myself liable for business rates, or taxed on my garden office.

This really pisses me off, the world has always changed after pandemics & they are desperate for the world not to change at all but we need to progress.

I've been a home worker for years and I totally object to the accusation I'm not contributing to the economy! Fucking outrageous! Just because you WFH doesnt mean you don't travel.

I've not claimed it as I don't want to find myself liable for business rates, or taxed on my garden office.

Thats a bit worrying. Our employer has signed us all up to this. Business rates on what?

I’m the other side of this too. Worked in a hospital throughout, 2 hour commute on public transport. Our admin teams have all been told to WFH permanently where they have been inefficient and caused us lots of extra work. They’re still awarded London weighting payment. I’m expecting TFL to raise fares next year and/or put on a much reduced service. Which I’ll have to pay for (and suck up an even longer unpaid commute) while my admin colleagues have a nice life. There will need to be some rebalance strategy.

The whole thing about going into London to save Pret was the tail wagging the dog anyway. The retailers and eateries in and around offices grew up to serve the office workers. If the office workers are no longer there, or in much smaller numbers, then the situation has changed and the likes of Pret will have to "pivot" - ie adapt and move to where the office workers are now - in commuter towns.

But there is a feeling out there that if you are WFH you are not contributing - not working and not doing anything. I and DH have worked right through, earned money, paid tax, invested in a garden room, a second internet line and various bits of equipment, as well as spending money generally.

DH used to commute by train, but he took his own lunch.

@Aylaaaaaaa

I've not claimed it as I don't want to find myself liable for business rates, or taxed on my garden office.

Thats a bit worrying. Our employer has signed us all up to this. Business rates on what?

Business rates on working from home and I read an article in the Sunday Times a few weeks ago about HMRC looking at garden rooms. I don't know - I have no idea about tax laws, I'm not an accountant. I would urge people to do their research. Both central and local government are strapped for cash, they are going to be looking to get it back somehow.

Re. internet providers - someone who works from home but rarely uses their internet otherwise, is probably using a lot less broadband than, say, a family of four who are all regular gamers, have smart televisions and use 'the internet of things'.

@Aylaaaaaaa @cologne4711

You would only be liable for capital gains tax if the place in your home you use for working is exclusively for working.

So if you ever used the space for anything else, you wouldn't be liable. Money saving expert has good article on this I think.

Eg: home office in garden shed- liable for CGT. But if you have a dart board in it that your child uses occasionally- no CGT.

Or home office- but occasionally a guest sleeps in it on a sofa bed- no CGT

We should all band together in a quiet protest across the UK and make it known to the UK government that if they do plan on taxing wfh employees more only, and not actually getting their buddies to pay tax, then all shopping will stop instantly apart from essentials. But no takeaways will be bought from anywhere, we will all just bring in our own food to work. And we will all go back into the office even if that means people giving lifts, no public transport used etc.

If people could actually be organised and manage that, you'd have the government by its balls.

Lol that highly paid economists at Deutsche Bank give a toss about minimum wage earners in the retail or food industries. This (from the BBC comments) is what they care about:
Deutsche is particularly exposed to UK commercial real estate. This recommendation from them screams panic mode

@WitchesSpelleas depends on your job. We have a limited data connection, and an hour of zoom meeting is a lot of upload & download data. WFH is using far more broadband than we've ever used before.

This article on sky news today:

COVID-19: Chancellor considers middle class tax raid to pay for pandemic debt mountain news.sky.com/story/chancellor-considers-middle-class-tax-raid-to-pay-for-covid-debt-mountain-12130446

The bottom two paragraphs about taxing the low earners is just unreal.
Not sure if they really mean the increase would be offset. What about the top earners?

Another way to screw the workers. Now we can pay the employers costs of accommodation, heating etc; and then pay for all the other workers as well. WFH saves employers a fortune - tax them.

Its quite funny that it comes from DB who were mandating a minimum of 2 days per week WFH before the pandemic to reduce their office footprint and have subsequently reduced their office capacity even further.

@MotherOfDragonite

Completely ridiculous idea, dreamt up by an over-paid man.

I don't know why this feels so gendered, but it does -- and it was thought up by men, I saw when I went to check.

Absolutely. The idea that people are spending an average of £7 a day on lunch and food completely misses the point for people who have financial struggles and have to reduce that amount to £0 by taking in lunch and walking to work. It's like they don't understand that some people aren't working in well paid London jobs and taking a long lunch break in some restaurant or other. Just completely not understanding real life for many people. Arrogant and offensive.

Mumsnet on lockdown : we need to lockdown quick, costs don't matter, we're all going to diiiiieeee
Mumsnet on paying for lockdown : that shouldn't apply to me

Mumsnet on paying for lockdown : that shouldn't apply to me

You do realise that plenty of the people being required to work from home are on low or minimum wages and zero hours contracts? And that plenty of people who are allowed to go into offices as key workers are the higher paid?

@C8H10N4O2 you do realise this has cost billions and we're all going to have to pay, right?

I never buy lunch or coffees at work, I take my own. I wear the same clothes home and office, all till they get holes in. I think it's a terrible idea ( reducing travel is great for the environment ) and I would be much happier with simpler ( and cheaper ) to administer extra penny in the pound on things like income and capital gains tax

Higher taxes for the top 5% of earners increasing in the 3% and 1% bracket. Make Amazon and co pay their taxes. Remove charitable status from private schools and make them pay corporation tax.

There's a huge misunderstanding and inverted snobbery here about what WFH actually is and what people WFH do.

Whoa.... working from home? I have misunderstood. I thought we were supposed to be wanking from home.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54912610

C8H10N4O2 you do realise this has cost billions and we're all going to have to pay, right?

Duh...

You do realise that simplistic schemes like this don't target those with the higher incomes and assets reliably? Its little better than a poll tax and near impossible to legislate effectively.

Its the result of lobbying by the likes of the CEO of Pret, on record as saying that if thousands of old and vulnerable people die then so be it, his business is more important. And the lobbyists for large scale land and property owners in city centres who are worried about losing rentals.

DB have previously produce their own research on the business benefits of having more people working from home at all levels.

Deutsche Bank can fuck off. Far, far away and then fuck off some more.

@BobsKnobs

I’m the other side of this too. Worked in a hospital throughout, 2 hour commute on public transport. Our admin teams have all been told to WFH permanently where they have been inefficient and caused us lots of extra work. They’re still awarded London weighting payment. I’m expecting TFL to raise fares next year and/or put on a much reduced service. Which I’ll have to pay for (and suck up an even longer unpaid commute) while my admin colleagues have a nice life. There will need to be some rebalance strategy.

I’m not a fan of the proposal but the post above illustrates why there will be exploration of different taxation options in the coming years. First,y the massive debt but also the imbalances created that will lead to unfairness for those who have no choice but to commute.

If the OP was ‘should workers able to wfh be taxed a little bit more to provide a levy for low paid worked workers and to ensure public transport stays affordable for nhs workers (and other public sector workers who can’t work from home) I think there might be a different debate.
I’m surprised so many are saying no to tax as usual MN is a fan of paying more tax to help the low paid which was actual the purpose of what Deutsche Bank was proposing.