Asking builder for schedule of works before starting project

[themummyway]

Summary: I've had to get a new set of builders in as the previous weren't working properly and left abruptly. Will save that story for the Property thread

New guys are meant to be starting soon and to avoid some troubles from the past, I've asked for a schedule of works. Something basic like week 1: xyz, abc. (We didn't have one before).

I've been told that "it doesn't work like that" and "once they're in, they'll be able to say when things are going to get done" but this sounds like a load of tosh to me!

The new builders have visited a few times already so know the lay of the land as far as what needs to be done.

Just seeking some reassurance that I'm NOT BU for wanting to have a rough idea of what the schedule is. Even if subject to change, I don't want to go into this blindly again

I go further and say get a schedule of precise works, quality of material used, quantity of materials used and a timescale. That is their side of the bargain. Yours is the money you have agreed to pay for those works. If you do not tie things down to a legally enforceable contract you are most probably going to get short changed because corners will be cut.

It isn't quite a straightforward, I think. I am having a range of work done - extension, complete rewiring, Central heating, New kitchen and bathroom. It can't be completely tied down, external work is weather dependent, internal work depends on factors that cannot be fully predicted until e.g. floorboards are up and you can see what's underneath.

On the other hand, it should be possible to pencil in a timeframe and the assumptions it is based on.

@Allington

It isn't quite a straightforward, I think. I am having a range of work done - extension, complete rewiring, Central heating, New kitchen and bathroom. It can't be completely tied down, external work is weather dependent, internal work depends on factors that cannot be fully predicted until e.g. floorboards are up and you can see what's underneath.

On the other hand, it should be possible to pencil in a timeframe and the assumptions it is based on.

All I want is a pencilled in timeframe. I'm well aware that things can happen to delay the process.

To be very honest, I don't really trust the builder but I know him well and have someone who can pull him up on his bs if he tries to. But I want to cover my back as much as possible.

The previous guys didn't give me a pencilled in timeframe and did things in a random order to make it look like they'd done more than they actually had!

@Tessiot

I go further and say get a schedule of precise works, quality of material used, quantity of materials used and a timescale. That is their side of the bargain. Yours is the money you have agreed to pay for those works. If you do not tie things down to a legally enforceable contract you are most probably going to get short changed because corners will be cut.

I agree! We don't have a contract, he just "starting on Thursday" (whatever that means), so I'm going to push for a contract or tell him bye.

Definitely go for a written contract! Things have developed as we go along, but we gave a written contract and any variations are confirmed in writing

have a written contract

@Allington where variations are not agreed in writing prior to being done, does that mean they're not liable to be paid?

Old builder is trying to claim that I owe some extras which I didn't agree to e.g. extra for flooring (wasn't communicated to me at the time), fixing a chimney bracket (again wasn't informed of the need for this at the time)

What is the basic contract, presume JCT?
If so annoyingly a programme or works isn’t essential. But you are within your rights to ask for one. They’d need to use pretty specific wording to make it contractual...

It sounds like the sort of thing builders should give the client, but unfortunately most just make it up as they go along. You won’t get this from a local builder with one van and a couple of laborers.

Have you agreed a time-charge or lump sum fee?

We don't have a contract, he just "starting on Thursday"

Oh Christ no. I got one of these- a 3-4 month job (max) took 14 months. Contract, schedule of works, itemised quote, payment schedule with a BIG chunk left at the end and a penalty if they massively overrun.

Lump sum fee - yes but that figure's already going to change because some things haven't been factored in... like electrics 😬

@donquixotedelamancha

We don't have a contract, he just "starting on Thursday"

Oh Christ no. I got one of these- a 3-4 month job (max) took 14 months. Contract, schedule of works, itemised quote, payment schedule with a BIG chunk left at the end and a penalty if they massively overrun.

WHEW if this isn't the red flag I needed, then I don't know what is

I am not a lawyer. As far as I know a verbal agreement can be a contract legally, but is more difficult to prove.

In my case I broke down the work into chunks - rewiring, build extension, remove bathroom items and install new ones etc. Each 'chunk' the builder quoted on and specified what was/wasn't included. E.g. the rewiring included materials, the bathroom replacement doesn't so I choose and pay for the bath/toilet etc.

I know the builder had to schedule me in about 6 weeks ahead, and is now booked about 5 months ahead. So gas no incentive to drag things out. OTOH there have been cosmetic improvements that he has suggested because it involves minimal additional labour costs, only some additional materials costs. I then decide whether it is worth it to me.

has not gas!

He should definitely be able to give you a vague outline of what will be happening and when. He must have to have a plan of what he’s going to do and in what order even if it’s only a mental one. If he can’t give you a basic outline I wouldn’t bother with him

Definitely ask for a schedule at least. I worked for a builder with a small team and he absolutely provided one. Please don't go with the ones who don't have a plan, you'll save yourself anlot of stress and probably money. (And expect to still take double the time than they predicted.)

@Allington

It isn't quite a straightforward, I think. I am having a range of work done - extension, complete rewiring, Central heating, New kitchen and bathroom. It can't be completely tied down, external work is weather dependent, internal work depends on factors that cannot be fully predicted until e.g. floorboards are up and you can see what's underneath.

On the other hand, it should be possible to pencil in a timeframe and the assumptions it is based on.

Actually, it is straightforward. I work in construction and the big boy programme out multi million pound developments.

Little builders can't be arsed doing it, but you're well thin you rights and very wise to ask for it.

You wouldn't go into Tesco and let them take a stab at the value of your trolley - you get it itemised. Do the same with your extension.

Well I agree with you, plus material samples etc.
Should you employ them (and I wouldn't) when they ask invoice you, you could always say 'it doesn't work like that once you've started I pay what I think your work is worth!'

We’re currently having building work done. At the point of quoting, the builder I am using gave a timeframe of c15 weeks to complete (single storey extension to create a large open plan kitchen/dining/living area plus creating a Utility room using part of the garage and the former kitchen). When we decided to go with this builder I asked for a schedule of works, which he provided with no issues. It’s a fairly basic and brief document which outlines at a high level what will be done each week (weeks 1-15) but has been useful. However we also have a written contract with agreed payment milestones. I’m not sure how much faith I would have if these things hadn’t been provided.
Has this new builder been personally recommended? Have you seen recent reviews/examples of their work? I only approachedbuilders who had been personally recommended by friends/family who had recently had work done.