To think that Covid has made us sleep walk into privatising the NHS?

[DamsonInGin]

Whisky we are all clapping the amazing people that work for them and save our lives all the routine stuff is being privatised under our noses.

My DPs moved recently and I am organising their health care in a new area of England.

My DF neede an X ray and yesterday we went to a private hospital for it (on the NHS) 'because, Covid'.

My DM needs a specialist and just ow has received an appointment at a private clinic via NHS.

I think these measures aren't

going to go back to previous NHS any time soon

I think Covid has accelerated it but what you're talking about has been happening for a long time. Private companies taking on work from the NHS happens a lot but the public purse is still paying for it. What I find very worrying is that I've heard of people buying private healthcare as individuals more recently. My brother paid for a simple operation on his foot and my sister-in-law paid £800 to have a MRI scan. People are slowly shifting towards accepting this, despite having paid their taxes and NI for years. We'll end up where those who can afford it go private, while those who can't wait. And there you have your two-tier system. It's insidious. People think there'll be a big black line - today the NHS is public, tomorrow it's private. Instead, we'll just slowly lose it. It's dire.

I've been expecting a 2 tier system since the referendum. Covid has just give it an excuse to bring it forward.

we voted to privatise the NHS last December...

If you thought any differently, oh well...

Definitely not, if COVID has done anything it's making the nation fall even more deeply in love with our NHS.

To continue to provide world class service at the very very reasonable rate we pay as a nation, AND to try and provide sensible employment conditions for all who work for the NHS, we have to keep an open mind about some of it's functions being performed by private businesses.

That happens today, has happened for ages, and will happen in the future. Providing the basic model is state funded through taxation and "free" at the point of use, I have no problem with that.

Private health insurance and private health care is there as an option for those that don't want to wait to be treated according to clinical need, or want more luxurious accomodation when they're in hospital.

@oldwhyno

Definitely not, if COVID has done anything it's making the nation fall even more deeply in love with our NHS.

To continue to provide world class service at the very very reasonable rate we pay as a nation, AND to try and provide sensible employment conditions for all who work for the NHS, we have to keep an open mind about some of it's functions being performed by private businesses.

That happens today, has happened for ages, and will happen in the future. Providing the basic model is state funded through taxation and "free" at the point of use, I have no problem with that.

Private health insurance and private health care is there as an option for those that don't want to wait to be treated according to clinical need, or want more luxurious accomodation when they're in hospital.

Waiting months for procedures is not world class care. Two days a go a poster was complaining that her father waited 2 years for a knee replacement. All the posters waiting for gall bladder surgery. Thats what you call world class treatment?. You are deluded to think the NHS is world class treatment. It definitely has its pros but world class treatment it is not.

@oldwhyno but what you are saying means that big business healthcare is creaming off shed loads of money from the NHS! How much do you think the private hospital charged the local NHS trust for that X-ray yesterday?. A LOT, and not just because it's a lovely new building.

@SoupForLunch

I think Covid has accelerated it but what you're talking about has been happening for a long time. Private companies taking on work from the NHS happens a lot but the public purse is still paying for it. What I find very worrying is that I've heard of people buying private healthcare as individuals more recently. My brother paid for a simple operation on his foot and my sister-in-law paid £800 to have a MRI scan. People are slowly shifting towards accepting this, despite having paid their taxes and NI for years. We'll end up where those who can afford it go private, while those who can't wait. And there you have your two-tier system. It's insidious. People think there'll be a big black line - today the NHS is public, tomorrow it's private. Instead, we'll just slowly lose it. It's dire.

Why shouldn't people have choice of health care?

Can’t help but think it’s inevitable OP. We’re not particularly well off but have been paying for private dentist for a while because 6-7+ months wait for NHS is an absolute joke. I posted recently about being refused expired implant removal due to Covid . I paid £150 privately. I need a smear test and NHS services around me haven’t started them up yet due to COVID... I’ll end up going private.

I love the NHS and actually have four family members working in it but flat out refusing to remove expired contraception because “it’s probably fine” and not giving smear tests to someone who needs them yearly (I’m only 30 and have been having them yearly since I was 25) is absolute shit and not world class service.

I work for the NHS and all this talk of privatisation is bollocks.

@leannb

Yes I'd love a choice! I'll choose 'the best'

What you you mean by choice?

Don't complain about being referred to a private hospital, you receive better care than you would on the NHS, less chance of operations being cancelled, better staff/patient ratios, better accommodation, you would be better complaining why the NHS can't be funded to run as efficiently as private hospitals do. I have had 5 operations under the NHS in private hospitals, they were excellent, I chose What date I wanted to go in, my partner was allowed to stay with me, I had a private ensuite room, the hospital had never had a case of MRSA, all the things the NHS should be but isn't, I got my operations done without a long wait as well.

This was addressed on Hospital on BBC. They had temporarily moved alot of surgeries to private hospitals because they don't have emergency care and therefore were easier to keep covid free. But it was extremely expensive and this merger with the private hospitals has been withdrawn in alot of areas and moved back to the NHS hospitals.

I work in the nhs and Covid is an easy excuse for the overwhelming amount of pressure on a creaky old system. The second lockdown was to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed and running out of beds- this happens every year. Every year we run out of beds and elective surgeries are cancelled. Every year there are massive backlogs. But this year- it’s because of covid. Except it’s not. It’s because hospital bed numbers haven’t grown in line with the expansion of the towns they serve. Community hospitals and rehab units have been shut so there is nowhere for people who are medically fit but need a bit of physio, or maybe a care package sorting out to go to wait. They then become ‘bed blockers’ which slows up the whole system (no ward beds means icu can’t discharge to that bed which means icu has no beds and the big elective surgery gets cancelled.)

Gah. Sorry for the rant it just winds me up that it’s so inefficient and contributes to staff burning out as it’s infuriating- but nothing changes. We have such well trained staff, expansive research and opportunity to provide world class care but it won’t happen.

@Leaannb knock it all you like, I think the NHS is pretty amazing and I don't want to see misguided ideology tie one hand behind their back as they tackle our evolving healthcare needs. We should keep our options open. Limiting the ability to use private services isn't going to do a thing about those wait times.

@DamsonInGin There isn't shed loads of spare money in the NHS. I have a little more faith in their judgement. The Xray was probably cheaper than buying, housing and staffing another Xray machine to increase internal capacity, and better for the patient than waiting.

@oldwhyno...I think you have misunderstood me. I've had a situation at work that I need to deal with. Someone lost their health insurance....Absolutely furious. Anyway, I will explain in a little bit.

Absolutely it's been coming a long time. I don't think it will be free at POS for everyone within five years.

Creeping privatisation has been going on for years.

"Don't complain about being referred to a private hospital, you receive better care than you would on the NHS,"

This simply isn't true. Private companies cream off the easy bits and anything that goes wrong is or complex just comes back to the NHS to deal with.

@gamerchick

I've been expecting a 2 tier system since the referendum. Covid has just give it an excuse to bring it forward.

I hope so! NHS is not fit for the current climate. Needs any help it can get!

Trusts have often used private hospitals to get the lists down for simple procedures I assume they get a decent age from the private hospitals

The NHS missed my mum’s cancer diagnosis “because covid, the results were lost”. So as far as I’m concerned, no need to sleepwalk into it, I’m happy to have it privatised right now. It isn’t working and it’s killing people. I’m not suggesting it’s a staff problem, it’s a system problem. I’d like to see a private system where a certain proportion of society don’t pay for the healthcare (the poorest) and the rest of us get insurance to pay for anything we might need, because the NHS is failing. We have to stop worshipping an utterly broken system and face facts that people are suffering and dying due to appalling red tape and hoops to jump through. Covid just accelerated it. It was broken before that. My MIL recently died of cancer. The diagnosis took many months with her being passed from pillar to post. All the while, the cancer was partying in her poor body.

We have accepted massive wait times for all sorts. It’s crept up on us. Mental health - want to wait a YEAR for help? 2 weeks for cancer referrals is considered “good” by the British pubic because we are accustomed to accepting this crap. Cancer referrals should be next day. And once you wait the 2 weeks, it’s typical to wait another month to have a tumour cut out. Again utter shit, but we no longer see it because the party line is to worship the NHS and be grateful you aren’t waiting 20 weeks. Fucked up.

Oh and let me add that the NHS are absolutely shitting on many of their staff.

Don’t confuse gratitude to staff with gratitude to the NHS.

Because the gratitude is for staff only.

[quote DamsonInGin]@leannb

Yes I'd love a choice! I'll choose 'the best'

What you you mean by choice?[/quote]
Yes, there's only choice in a two tier system if you can afford it. There's no choice if you've no money. You get the shit healthcare, the cheap drugs, the delayed treatment, the packed wards, the premature death etc.