Netflix - The Staircase...innocent or guilty?

[CoRhona]

YABU - it was an unfortunate fall

YANBU - guilty as sin

(If you've not watched it but plan to, read up more about it afterwards...I was )

@Ginger1982 going to see if I can find the Reece Shearsmith / Sheridan Smith drama on Malcolm Webster.

Am I the only person who categorically does not believe the owl theory?!

I watched it ages ago so I don't remember the ins and outs, but he came across as guilty to me... but at crazy as it sounds at first, I think the owl theory could possibly be true. I guess you can't just convict someone because you don't like them. Very odd case!

i'm being a little impatient as I'm only on ep1.

Were any of the 5 kids at home the night she died?

And there must be a strong suspicion that Mike was in a relationship with Liz. The older girl resembles him, he takes them in and his marriage falls apart.

And now they're onto the audio test (staircase yells to poolside) using a recording (not the same acoustically) and the water fountains are on!

None of the kids were there but Todd arrived immediately after the 911 call. I suspect he helped stage the scene.

@HoHoHolyMackerel

I didn't hear of the owl theory until I googled it. Was that bit in the netflix docu or did I zone out for abit? It was a very long docu from what I remember

No they didn't include it

The reason the owl theory is interesting is because the lacerations on her head are horrendous (and helped convince the jury it was murder, imo, though any head injury that causes death will look awful after an autopsy), but she didn't have blunt force trauma.

What else would 'scrape' her scalp enough for the blood loss and yet be done in a rage or cold blood by a person, without damaging her skull?

Not saying I believe it, but I understand why some day! I think it more likely that she hit her head, then fell repeatedly and smeared the blood everywhere.

(just not sure how she hit her head or if he was involved)

*why some do

Guilty as sin. Killer owl my arse.

@HoHoHolyMackerel I'm with you he was a creep and a liar guilty as sin it's been a while since I watched it though
Would love another series of making a murderer

@LizzieMacQueen you have a long way to go yet

There’s no documented case of an owl causing wounds severe enough to lead to death. Nothing like it.

Maybe he bludgeoned her to death with a stuffed owl?

But how do you bludgeon someone without damaging their skull? It’s an odd one!

Guilty: anything else is just mental gymnastics.

There’s no documented case of an owl causing wounds severe enough to lead to death.

That is not the owl theory. The theory is she was attacked outside and died falling down stairs in panic, knocked herself out and bled out from otherwise treatable wounds.

That is not the owl theory. The theory is she was attacked outside and died falling down stairs in panic, knocked herself out and bled out from otherwise treatable wounds
Which makes no sense as to why if attacked and distressed by severe wound, she would have managed to close the front door and decides to go up these stairs rather than go towards the garden to seek help from her husband.

Because she was half pissed and in shock and not thinking straight? 🤷‍♀️ I don’t really know either way.

Well, a while back I surprised an owl that had flown into my bedroom. It didn’t just stay sitting there and go too-wit too-woo - it went berserk. I wasn’t clawed but there were feathers everywhere and a great deal of poo.

I immediately thought of The Staircase, and how if it was an owl attack she would have been covered with feathers and poo.

Not necessarily if the attack was outside, surely?

Didn't they say the lacerations could have been caused by her skin splitting due to a sharp angle impact (consistent with a fall and head knock against the angle of a staircase)?
I seem to remember the pathologist comparing the skull to a watermelon...
Which I why i found it odd the prosecutors kept talking about a beating and a weapon.

A sharp push would have been enough.

@SkaraBrae

Didn't they say the lacerations could have been caused by her skin splitting due to a sharp angle impact (consistent with a fall and head knock against the angle of a staircase)? I seem to remember the pathologist comparing the skull to a watermelon... Which I why i found it odd the prosecutors kept talking about a beating and a weapon.

A sharp push would have been enough.

Yes according to the defence it could have been caused that way, but heavily disputed if that was consistent with the blood spatter, plus fractured thyroid and no injuries to lower body.

From the prosecution’s POV, I think they said it was murder not an accident because the injuries weren’t consistent with a fall down the stairs. If they were consistent, the police/prosecution would have no particular reason to question how she came to fall down

@notafanoftheman

Not necessarily if the attack was outside, surely?

Whether inside or outside, it falls down.

If inside, yes it is very unlikely due to there being no real signs of an owl (a couple of small feathers), plus how did the blood get onto the door?

If outside, given she was bleeding heavily how come no blood between door and stairs?

It makes no sense to me that he would murder someone this way. Let’s say it’s premeditated. He lures his wife to the staircase and pushes her down. It’s pretty hard to kill someone on a staircase. I once saw a guy take a very nasty tumble down a concrete staircase. Blood everywhere, but he walked away. Or he lured her to the staircase then hit her over the head with a weapon and pushed her down the staircase. Again, it’s pretty hard to kill someone by hitting them over the head. The skull is tough. He’s an intelligent man. A writer, so good at visualizing and thinking out plots. Surely, there would be a high chance of her not dying and telling on him? Surely, he would know about blood splatter and skull fractures. There are much easier and better ways to kill a person and make it look like an accident.

I could understand heat of the moment thing. But, his mental state seemed quite calm for an accidental killing. It’s very hard to lie consistently for years in such detail.

I’m not saying he didn’t do it, just that I don’t think the evidence is strong enough either way.

It’s been a while since I watch it so I can’t remember the exact part. But there is a bit in the documentary where he just point blank lies to his lawyer. I think about meeting up for sex with the man he was emailing. Then it came out that he regularly met up with men for sex. You just know he’s a very good liar and can lie easily.

He is definitely guilty. I would go with the suggestion he reacted in anger when she found out about the affair, and there were money problems etc. that he did push her in some way that caused the lacerations but no fractures and he sat and waited while she bled to death.

I think it’s all very sad and I don’t like that in these documentary’s the fact this is a real case and a real victim can get lost. I remember watching at the end, where he is about to be released and Kathleens family member (can’t remember who) is insisting he’s guilty. It presented her quite negatively as someone who is bitter and should just believe him and let it go. In my opinion he is very clearly guilty.