Is this bullying or just young kids?

[ThePinkGuitar]

My ds started Foundation reception at school was at the preschool within the school grounds with friends so not a massive difference except there are new kids in his year from other nursery settings now.
One boy since sept has commented to my ds I want to hit your face I want to hurt you. It’s now become apparent other kids are worried about my ds or same thing happened to them- violent language ‘I want to cut your head off, ears off etc’. I will stab you.
This boy is 4.
I’ve reported to school brushed off but since I’ve heard it happened to other kids shouldn’t school be looking into this child’s Homelife if this is the language used?
Is this bullying? My ds scared to go to school but he’s only 4 is this what foundation is like?!

Try taking to the head teacher ? Doesn’t sound normal at all to me

They shouldn’t brush it off if it continues no. Make sure your complaints are in writing. Mention you are concerned for both that child and your son’s safety. Drop the words safeguarding obligations somewhere in there. I want to hit your face could be a child playing up but stabbing etc no that’s too far.

I would hope the school are dealing with it, however they probably wouldn’t tell you the details anyway - it could be anything from X is in a very difficult home environment with social services involvement, to Xs older brother let him watch Avengers films and it gave him nightmares.
It’s not good that the boy is saying that to other children, but it also in my experience isn’t that uncommon for some children that age to come out with that sort of stuff, they tend to act out macho things they’d come across without really understanding the context. He could be copying an older sibling, or something more sinister could be going on.
I would focus on giving your child strategies for dealing with it (he isn’t being physically hurt so this is easier). I would go with “walk away” “tell a teacher” etc

This is bullying and very dangerous language. I would be pressing the school to handle it

I'd be making sure the school actually are looking into this. That is not normal. Your poor DS mist be so frightened.
When I was in infants there was this girl who was the same and she actually stabbed a girl in the hand with scissors. The schools response was her parents had split up so was having a hard time. What a piss poor excuse. That doesn't make kids do that. She was psycho and still is. Parents actually got together and made a complaint and she was removed.

But yes I would keep reporting to school whenever it happens, and you can mention safeguarding. But even if there was lots going on behind the scenes they wouldn’t tell you because that would affect the other child’s confidentiality.

This isn’t normal at all! Quite disturbing language.

Both kids need attending to here

@Leaannb

This is bullying and very dangerous language. I would be pressing the school to handle it

100%

I've never heard anything like it I heard two small children telling the other to punch her in the face.. The other day. I was bullied at school throughout but not as young as these children are. I do wonder what has made young children violent now.

Thank you all I wanted to check im not being overly worried. I have verbally reported to ta and teacher several times but it’s been brushed off. It’s only since it’s come to light that the same thing is happening to 2 other boys and their mums being brushed off I can see the bigger issues. I have emailed school but I think I will follow up Tomo with concerns over child doing it and safeguarding aspect as I’ve been quotes focused on this boy not liking my ds which actually isn’t the issue at all.

Not followed up so far as confirmed Covid case in school so it’s manic there.
Son said child grabbed his face today 😔

Bump for any other bits of advice before I go back to school again

Doesn’t sound normal at all - report to the Head and if the school keep minimising I would notify the NSPCC and fall your local social services department.

That poor boy is obviously being abused at home and being exposed to awful behaviour, probably from his Dad.

*call

For a 4 YO to talk like that is a serious safeguarding concern. My daughter is the same age and doesn’t know what “stab” is.

Stay calm when you talk to whoever. Chances are good that your previous comments have not been ignored. They can't tell you anything about any action they may be taking.

Do tell them that you know they can't discuss much with you

Do tell them what the child has said to your child.

Do tell them that other parents are talking about it, it isn't only your child that is scared/worried

Do tell them that it escalated from verbal threats to physical contact with your child today.

State VERY strongly that you fear for that child as well as for your own and want a promise that your concerns will not be ignored.

Ask for their names person's contact details, they should be easily available on their website, and send that person details of everything you have said and repeat, after the physical contact today you need reassurances that you are being taken seriously.

Chances are the child is known to various services. Your information, in written form, might be helpful to someone, might help out a hurry up on some support for all involved.

Best of luck.

Sorry. That should be named person, safeguarding lead. The language changes but they'll know who you mean.

Thank you I will write an email to head and safeguarding lead first thing tomorrow so it doesn’t get lost in the covid madness of today. The make nspcc call if they still brush it off.
Do I need to go to ofsted if it’s minimised again?

Bumps again to check if I should mention ofsted?

I'd email the school, I wouldn't mention Ofsted just yet. Let the head come back to you.
But I'd be worried who's saying that to a young child, or what are they overhearing, is their domestic abuse?

You don't actually have to define it as bullying or not bullying. All you have to know is that children are frightened and worried. Tell the school that and then let them decide how to tackle it.

The other thing to notice is that it may be a sign that something is not right with this boy, as pp have mentioned. Again, something the school needs to know.

I would push the school on your ds' right to feel safe at school before escalating it to Ofsted.

I had a similar situation with my eldest DD. Boy verbally abused her, (screaming in her face daily) in her first week at infant school. Being my eldest, I went in gently and got fobbed off for ages.

It's honestly my biggest regret I didn't go in more firmly and put it all in writing.

This boy got increasingly unpleasant and he escalated to physically hurting her, smacking, punching, wrestling her to the ground and ripping her coat off etc. I had several meetings with the teacher and Head, both were very defensive and told me it was nothing, my DD got upset too easily (!) After about 18 months DD was a wreck, always had tummy ache and didn't want to go to school. I dug around and found out the boy was literally terrorising the whole playground at break time. Turned out his Mum was a heroin addict. (She was always swearing loudly at the school gates.) His home life must have been awful, I felt bad for him, but he shattered my DD and many other children at such a crucial time in their development.

It's taken us years to build her confidence up again.

I would handle the same situation much more confidently if I had my time again.

So please keep pushing. Put your complaints in writing. Get the other parents whose kids have been affected involved. Do whatever you can to protect your DD from this abuse. The boy probably has had an awful life and maybe you can indirectly help him get on the relevant people's radar to get the help he needs.

Have faith in your DD and let them
know you believe them. Don't let the school play it down.

Don't be afraid to be a bit of an annoying parent.

Teacher here.

IME 4 year olds very very rarely bully. I've found what parents consider "bullying" is actually just childish jibes/language and plain old not getting along. Often parents storm in demanding why their child is being "bullied" to find their child is just as bad.

The language can potentially be a safeguarding red flag, and you're right to raise it. It could though also be an embellishment. They are 4 after all!

Keep raising it with the teacher and assure your DS that he is safe and needs to continue to tell you what's happening at school.

Sorry ThePinkGuitar, I should have said your DS, not Dd. Best of luck with this difficult situation.

@LouiseTrees

They shouldn’t brush it off if it continues no. Make sure your complaints are in writing. Mention you are concerned for both that child and your son’s safety. Drop the words safeguarding obligations somewhere in there. I want to hit your face could be a child playing up but stabbing etc no that’s too far.

agreed

Thanks all I sent a full outline of all my concerns and I think it’s quite strongly worded. I hope we can move things forward so ds starts enjoying going back to school soon.