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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to ask our MP for help with DD's PIP claim

50 replies

Joanie78 · 08/11/2020 22:49

Am at my wit's end... DD is 18, has autism ("high functioning"). History of suicide attempts and self-harm, which I also posted about, as she is having difficulties accessing care. She has also been diagnosed with PTSD-like symptoms. She applied for PIP and was refused it, aside for about £20 a week for mobility. I really think she should have got it. For example, she goes days without eating because she forgets but they said she can cook a meal because she sometimes eats cereal. She had to drop out of uni because she couldn't cope with it. Can't manage finaces at all. DD can't work at the moment as her mental health is so poor and even if she was in a better place she has such bad anxiety and gets so exhausted from masking she would really struggle to hold down a job. One of the reasons for not giving her PIP is because she isn't on antidepressants or any other psychiatric medication. Will our MP (Labour, if it matters) be able to help if we email them? Never contacted an MP before and not sure if all their time is now spent with covid-related work. DD's quality of life is so poor at the moment Sad Thank you.

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Joanie78 · 08/11/2020 23:40

Thank you User1471 - DD would never lie about her condition or her MH issues. She was unflinchingly honest and it was hard because I was there with her and I knew things were bad but I didn't realise just how bad. Or the extent to which her friends support her.

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lyralalala · 09/11/2020 00:06

@Joanie78

Lyralalala thank you, we did try and get ESA but because she hasn't worked for more than about 4 weeks she isn't eligible Sad that is what the letter said anyway. I understand that there is 2 types of ESA though... So am really confused.
Ok in that case she needs to claim UC and make sure she ticks the box about having a health condition or disability that affects her ability to work. You can claim UC if you have what they call “limited capability for work”.

Again it’s separate to PIP.

Think of them as different things - UC is for day-to-day expenses when she can’t work. People also get it when they are job seeking. It’s means tested and would reduce of stop if she had a job.

Pip is for the extra expenses of a disability or health condition - taxis, extra washing, costs up get to appointments and the likes.
It’s not means tested and isn’t an out of work benefit.

Pugdogmom · 09/11/2020 00:17

I am a Welfare Rights adviser.You are better contacting Welfare Rights rather than your MP. I always advise the following

  1. Get an actual copy of the assessors report. Ask for copies of ALL assessment reports including any modifications. It is quite common for assessors to be told to modify them.
  2. You can do the Mandatory Reconsideration by phone ( once you get the report). Go through everything you disagree with, and tie up to the descriptors. Or get Welfare Rights involved at this stage (although many will just submit your appeal). Its about a 10/ 16 week return for MR's at moment.
Pugdogmom · 09/11/2020 00:19

And yes, she would claim UC. There are no new claims for ESA being accepted unless you have paid enough NI contributions.

Casschops · 09/11/2020 01:12

I don't feel MPs are the most useful people in this situation. You need a professional who knows your daughter well and the impact of her diagnosis on her day to day functioning. Its not good enough to reel if the diagnoses you need to talk about impact and support required

Joanie78 · 09/11/2020 01:18

Thank you for the input, Pugdogmum. So do you mean get the report from the PIP people? We got a think saying in what catagories she got "points". Would assessors be told to modify their report by their managers or do you mean they get told to modify by people appealing? Thank you Grin

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Joanie78 · 09/11/2020 01:20

Sorry also what is "welfare rights"? Is it a charity? When I search I can't see anything like a chariry.

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LightDrizzle · 09/11/2020 01:21

My then local MP, Diana Johnson, was very helpful when I sought 1:1 support for DD1 at school (on the advice of the school) and hadn’t had a response from the LEA.

Definitely worth trying.

pistolknight · 09/11/2020 01:24

Welfare rights are normally based at your council if you google welfare rights council and then the name of your council it should help

lyralalala · 09/11/2020 06:52

@Joanie78

Thank you for the input, Pugdogmum. So do you mean get the report from the PIP people? We got a think saying in what catagories she got "points". Would assessors be told to modify their report by their managers or do you mean they get told to modify by people appealing? Thank you Grin
If you ask for the report from the Pip people you’ll be able to see what the assessor said about your DDs assessment

Now something to be aware of is that these as often very different from actual conversations so brace yourself to be upset, raging and shocked at it.

Speak to your MP and ask them for help and ask them who you can speak too. Their office, assuming you have a decent mp will know what kind of things you have locally in terms of welfare rights, charities and the likes because provision is so different across the countries.

vjg13 · 09/11/2020 07:31

I also would recommend this website www.benefitsandwork.co.uk you do need to pay to join but the guides they produce are excellent and invaluable in filling in your forms.

They also do a weekly email and the statistics for individuals who take rejected claims to appeal are really encouraging.

I contacted my MP when social care were dragging their feet on my daughter's support plan and one of her team very promptly got in touch with them which I think may have helped, definitely did no harm!

Good luck, try not to get too discouraged, the system is set up to put people off and make them give up.

PocahontasMcGinty · 09/11/2020 07:40

Welfare Rights is to do with your rights while claiming/trying to claim welfare benefits.

A Welfare Rights Officers job is to guide, help and represent you through this process. PIP is a horrible benefit to go through assessment for and is routinely refused however a good welfare rights officer can fight this all the way for your daughter.

One with autism or mental health speciality would be good, however you need someone from your own area

Local councils have welfare rights teams as do many charities, housing associations if you are a tenant. Googling local welfare rights service should help

Embracelife · 09/11/2020 07:47

She may have to wait few weeks if only just left uni but then as was said ...
she needs to claim UC and make sure she ticks the box about having a health condition or disability that affects her ability to work. You can claim UC if you have what they call “limited capability for work”.

FabbyChix · 09/11/2020 07:50

The assessors get bonuses for denying a claim, the company concerned are paid to reject claims, isnt that fraud? You wouldnt get a non surgeon carrying out operations why is it okay for a non qualified person to override what a qualified doctors says about someone? Its all fraudulent.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 09/11/2020 07:55

Hi OP,
I have a background in Welfare Rights and work as a caseworker for an MP now.
If you wrote to my MP, I would advise you to enter a mandatory reconsideration. I would then write in support of the reconsideration.
I would be able to make a decent case for you, because I'm familiar with the qualifying criteria for PIP and the sorts of arguments likely to convince the DWP.
Your MPs caseworker might have a different skill set and you may end up with a generic "letter in support" which is not likely to be as helpful.
I would advise you to:

  1. Get in your mandatory reconsideration before the deadline. You can do this by phone but in writing is better as you can construct an argument.
  2. Get supporting letters from your DDs GP, mental health worker, support worker etc...This is likely to be more valuable than a letter in support from your MP who does not know your DD personally. Don't worry if you can't get hold of these before the deadline for the mandatory reconsideration. Meet the deadline and sent the additional evidence later.
  3. If you can, find a welfare rights specialist at your housing association, council, CAB, Law Centre or from a solicitors firm with a welfare rights department. They can help you construct an argument about how your DD fits into the qualifying criteria.
If you can't find a person like this: study the PIP rules yourself. PIP has a relatively simple points system. Work out what points your daughter should have got. Refer to them specifically and say why you think she should have them.
  1. Don't worry if you get turned down at mandatory reconsideration. Many people still go on to win at appeal. Put in your appeal form. If you haven't managed to construct your argument about the points or provide supporting evidence already, do it now.
  2. Go into the appeal hearing with a list of the points you think your daughter should get. If you've done a good mandatory reconsideration and/or appeal form the tribunal should already be aware of them and should target their questions to the relevant areas. Tick the different descriptors off your list as they're covered. If anything remains, raise it at the end. You'll be given an opportunity to do so.
Good Luck!
LakieLady · 09/11/2020 07:55

Benefits adviser here. I don't think your MP will be of any meaningful help. You need a benefits specialist and for your daughter, one of the autitistic charities may well have someone who can help.

The PIP decision making process is surprisingly technical. Underpinning the questions on the form is a vast amount of regulations and case law.

First, take a look here www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

This is your starting point. This will enable you to work out how many points your daughter should have been awarded.

When looking at each descriptor, bear in mind that if someone cannot carry out the activity safely, repeatedly, to an acceptable standard and in a reasonable amount of time. If the applicant cannot carry out the activity to those criteria, then they can't do it. So, for example, if your daughter takes a long time to dress, because she can't decide what to wear, or choose appropriate clothing for the weather or circumstances, then she can't dress without support, help or prompting and points should be awarded.

Prompting and encouragement count as needing help from another person.

The inability to carry out an activity must be related to a medical condition or some other problem. Eg, if someone has no motivation to wash or bathe because of their depression, they need prompting/encouraging and should get 2 points. If they are easily distracted because of ADHD or something, they may be inclined to leave food in the oven or on the hob, so they cannot cook safely without supervision, and should be awarded 4 points.

So you need to start her mandatory reconsideration. Go through each descriptor in turn and work out what points you think she should have been given, and why.

List them, in order, and explain 1) what issue makes it difficult for her to do the activity, what sort of help she needs to do it safely/repeatedly etc, and how this is addressed, eg you supervise or encourage/remind her.

Re the preparing food/eating, the threshold for preparing food is a proper meal prepared from scratch using fresh ingredients, so a bowl of cereal or popping a ready meal in a microwave doesn't cut it. It's not an "acceptable standard" nutritionally so doesn't count for eating - spell that out. (I'm surprised by that, I've never seen them make such a schoolboy error lol)

The "worst day" is not a factor in PIP, that was DLA. The test in PIP is "the majority of the time" so if the help is needed every time, say so. If it's less, say so; eg "once or twice a week, X manages activity Y on her own, but most of the time I have to (prompt/supervise/assist - whichever is relevant) ... and explain the help she needs.

Work out what points you think she should get for each descriptor and tell them, eg "Therefore descriptor 2d applies and 4 points should be awarded".

Whack the mandatory reconsideration in. If you don't have time to do a full job, write a letter for her sign asking for a mandatory reconsideration and saying that grounds for reconsideration will follow.

Supporting evidence from professionals is always helpful. Anything to do with her diagnoses will help, but if she's involved with any other services, attends any events connected with her autism, have any reports (these could be from when she was at school, as autism tends not to change much, and I have successfully used an EHCP before now) these will help and can all be sent in later.

There is also some case law about "exceptional motivators". I had a case where the DWP dismissed my submission for some descriptors because the client went horse riding once a week. This was not upheld because I submitted that this was an "exceptional motivator", ie her love of horse riding overcame her difficulties.

Any factors that may have disadvantaged her at assessment should be cited. I assume it was done over the phone, so it may be that she manages telephone conversation more easily than face to face, and that they will not have been able to observe physical signs of how distressing the experience was, but she was actually shaking, hair-pulling etc. They could not form an accurate opinion if they couldn't see her.

Sadly, the mandatory reconsideration rarely changes anything. I'm convinced it's just there to try and reduce the number of people going to appeal. The only decisions that seem to get changed at this stage are those where the client missed out by a couple of points. But it has to be done before an appeal can be submitted.

When it comes to the appeal, your grounds for appeal can be essentially the same as those for the MR, so you'll already have done the hard bit and can just copy and paste what you've already done with a bit of tweaking.

Don't be discouraged. The success rate for appeals is incredibly high, over 80%. (This rises massively when benefit specialists are involved, and 3 out of 4 on my team have 100% success rate). I'm confident that your daughter would win at appeal.

And when you win, the awarded is backdated to the date that the PIP would have started. Some clients have received 5-figure sums in arrears payments.

The system is cruel and unfair imo, but this is what people voted for when they voted for the party that were going to reform the "broken" benefit system. They reformed it by smashing it to bits imo.

Good luck.

LakieLady · 09/11/2020 08:08

Apologies for the typos etc - that was written in haste!

Joanie78 · 09/11/2020 09:04

Do the assessors really get bonuses for rejecting a claim?! Or is that a myth. The assessor seemed so nice on the phone... Sad

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Joanie78 · 09/11/2020 09:07

Lakie - thank you so much, I really appreciate it xx

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vjg13 · 09/11/2020 15:06

Lakilady, that is such an excellent post, I've done screen shots for when I next fill in my daughter's form. She is 22 but still on DLA, well overdue the change to PIP.

vjg13 · 09/11/2020 15:07

Lakielady sorry Blush

Rexasaurus · 09/11/2020 21:38

Citizens advice bureau really helped us with our sons DLA claim.

He went from low on everything to a higher award (can’t remember which banding sorry).

They were ace though. Really knew their stuff

Joanie78 · 10/11/2020 17:39

Thank you Rex - will try CAB if they are operating at this time. Glad your DS got his sorted Smile

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movingonup20 · 10/11/2020 17:52

Look through the form and see where she should gain points. I have a similar dd and won at tribunal. For the food there's three categories, one of them is that they need reminding encouraged to eat for instance.

Elmo230885 · 10/11/2020 18:20

@joanie78 it is a myth that assessors get bonuses for turning people down

The assessors write the reports and point the decision maker to an conclusion for each of the descriptors

Unfortunately a lot of reports get audited and the assessor is overruled by the auditor and made to change their report despite the auditor not being present at the assessment

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