Fur.

[BadlyDrawnSimpsonsCharacter]

"Inspired" by the culling of mink on fur farm in Denmark - AIBU to wonder why on earth, in this day and age, people are still purchasing fur?

There are enough videos and photos from fur farms that show how fur is acquired. I will not go into this as it is very, very disturbing.

If you are a fur wearer, can I ask why you choose to wear it, considering the torture the animal has no doubt endured to provide the fur?

For clarity I am not a PETA member/animal rights activist looking for an argument (although I do have strong views on animal cruelty, like the majority of people do).

I am genuinely interested in other people's views on this.

@MrsJunglelow if those videos are faked then something is seriously fucked up (sorry for the language!)

I do not agree with all the PETA policies whatsoever. It is really the fur industry that bothers me (there are other causes I am concerned about but I am certainly against putting healthy animals down!).

I don't think intimidating behaviour is the way to go to get people to change their minds
It’s not ‘right’ but often it is the only way..
Look at the women’s vote.
Women had been peacefully protesting for a very long time with no results.
Bring on the bombs, hunger strikes, running in front of horses and boom, we have the vote!
It’s not morally right no, but often intimidation and violence is the only way

if those videos are faked then something is seriously fucked up (sorry for the language!)
I agree but quite honestly, it would not surprise me.
PETA are a very questionable organisation with questionable views and give animal rights groups a bad name imo

@MrsJunglelow I am very much a supporter of smaller animal rights groups - I've even heard not great things about the RSPCA (not responding to animal cruelty alerts/calls, that sort of thing).

There really are some horrible horrible things that go on in this world, and unfortunately Asia gets a very bad rap regarding their animal welfare. Perhaps that's where my anger towards the fur industry comes from. To be honest, I didn't realise there was such a big market for it in Europe and the US until I started reading about the mink culling in Denmark.

please may I direct you to the PETA website

No you may not! They are a bunch of misinformed loons, with a narrow agenda. Their motives are questionable, and their charity status should be rescinded. Their charitable status rests on their educational motives, which I would argue are more akin to propaganda than education.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4583040/amp/PETA-defends-fake-animal-abuse-video.html

This one is specifically about some of the fur skinning videos.
It alleges the men admitted they were paid to do it and I have heard the same story reported elsewhere

sfntoday.com/report-peta-uses-staged-video-of-animal-being-killed/

That’s not to say that I think fur farms are humane or okay because even taking the death aspect out of it, the way they are kept in rows of tiny bare cages is absolutely despicable.
I don’t agree with animals being killed solely for fur, it really doesn’t sit with me, but I do think there is misinformation around this subject.

I absolutely think that people shouldn't be attacked for fur wearing. No one knows whether that fur is bought from god knows where or if, as in my family's case, the fur was from their own animals, they killed and skinned. I am all for ensuring high standards in farming and use of all parts so demonising ALL fur goes against it.

@MrsJunglelow

I don't think intimidating behaviour is the way to go to get people to change their minds It’s not ‘right’ but often it is the only way.. Look at the women’s vote. Women had been peacefully protesting for a very long time with no results. Bring on the bombs, hunger strikes, running in front of horses and boom, we have the vote! It’s not morally right no, but often intimidation and violence is the only way

Wasn't it the contribution of women in WW1, who worked in essential jobs while the men were away, that changed things rather than the effect of activism?

Mink are not just farmed for their fur. They are also used for mink oil which is used to waterproof leather and in the cosmetics industry in hair conditioners, hair sprays, lipsticks, skin cleansers, moisturizers, and other skin and hair products. The fur is often used for false eyelashes too.

I have no issue with farming animals for various uses. I do have issue with any inhumane treatment of them. Slaughtering should be done as painlessly as possible and not too early in their natural lifespan.

Look at the women’s vote. Women had been peacefully protesting for a very long time with no results. Bring on the bombs, hunger strikes, running in front of horses and boom, we have the vote!

That’s not true. The actions of the suffragettes set back the vote for women by decades through the use of violence. You need to read the debates in Parliament and the writings of the suffragists that were there. In the end women only got the vote to balance out the vote being expanded to working class men.

@PlanDeRaccordement I agree with you - farming, of any kind, needs to be done humanely. But the problem lies with consumerism I suppose. The bigger the demand, the more industrial farming practises will be used to meet that demand.

@BadlyDrawnSimpsonsCharacter
Yes, as the worlds population grows, demand keeps increasing. I do agree as well that consumerism is an issue too as it not just more people but it’s people demanding more than they need. How much of cosmetics are necessary? I can see how fur is needed to keep warm in cold climates and it is biodegradeable and durable such that generations of a family can use same article of clothing. But I don’t understand killing an animal to make twenty pairs false eyelashes, twenty tubes of lipstick and four bottles of hair conditioner. All items that are frivolous and most are single use and get washed down a drain and are not necessary to food, shelter, warmth.

Industrial scale farming of animals tends to result in lower animal welfare standards. So I agree too that we should have laws prohibiting farms above a certain size and regulating welfare standards like space per animal, minimum age for slaughtering (like how you have to throw back into the sea fish or lobster that are too small&young), allowing family groups, free range habitats.

@PlanDeRaccordement totally agree. Killing animals for cosmetic product ingredients is just inexcusable in this day and age. Surely there must be an ethical alternative?

I came home from a village hall jumble sale in about 1978-9 with an immaculate calf length fur coat which I got for maybe 20p. Might have been 10p it was a long time ago.

I have no idea how old it was then.
I didn't even know it was real fur, I actually bought it intending to cut it up & make it into teddy bears which is what would have happened if my mother hadn't spotted it.
She wore it for years for special occasions before passing it onto one of my aunts who treasures it.

What should people do with furs that already exist?
Binning it wouldn't save the animal or change what had happened.

I'm a vegan and while I obviously think fur is gross and cruel I don't understand why non-vegans froth at the mouth so much about it. Perhaps it's an easy "other" to point to and say "at least I don't do that". Also if the animals being used weren't cute probably no one would really care. Like if foxhounds chased turkeys across country I bet people would care half as much.

I had a friend who used to wear fur, he simply didn't give a shit about the way it was produced. He thought he looked great in it and that was all he cared about. He had this selfish and egotistical attitude in eves area of life, which is why we no longer speak.

I do think wearing fur is different to eating meat because most of Europe doesn't have a climate cold enough to warrant wearing fur, wool or synthetic materials are sufficient.
I don't think it's wrong for people living near the polar circle to kill a reindeer that has lived its life outside, eat its meat and use its skin. It's entirely different to the destructive practices of fur farms, which pollute the environment and cause immeasurable suffering to animals, all in the name of bloody fashion.

Like if foxhounds chased turkeys across country I bet people would care half as much

There was also the class aspect of hunting. Putting on a balaclava and shouting ‘toff wanker’ is more fun than taking a real risk in breaking into factory farms where there’s every chance of being set upon by the owners.

@Snugglepumpkin "What should people do with furs that already exist?
Binning it wouldn't save the animal or change what had happened."

I believe there are charities where you can donate fur coats etc. The coats are then used as bedding for orphaned wild animals. I think that's a really good idea of what to do with unwanted furs; sort of giving something back to nature.

There was also the class aspect of hunting. Putting on a balaclava and shouting ‘toff wanker’ is more fun than taking a real risk in breaking into factory farms where there’s every chance of being set upon by the owners

You are not wrong my friend, there's definitely an element of spoiling rich people's day.

I think coursing is equally bloody revolting but it doesn't seem to get the same attention.

[quote BadlyDrawnSimpsonsCharacter]@donquixotedelamancha if you don't believe that some of these poor creatures are skinned alive, please may I direct you to the PETA website. Or even if you Google it, I'm sure you'll get some interesting results.
But sadly yes, some animals on fur farms are indeed skinned alive. Perhaps not in EU or American farms but certainly in parts of Asia. I wish I was making this up but I'm not.[/quote]
I would believe anything of the Chinese, where animal (or indeed human) rights are concerned. The stuff they do in zoos in the name of "entertainment" is horrific. I am glad that I'm in a civilised country.

@DdraigGoch don't even get me started on animals being used in circuses. Absolutely vile and archaic.

I think coursing is equally bloody revolting but it doesn't seem to get the same attention

Neither does cock fighting, dog fighting or numerous other unpleasant "sports"

As with hunting, it's sometimes hard to avoid thinking the fuss is less about love of the animals and more about class hatred of the participants (and no, I certainly don't support hunting myself)

As with hunting, it's sometimes hard to avoid thinking the fuss is less about love of the animals and more about class hatred of the participants (and no, I certainly don't support hunting myself)

Of course it is. If not then shooting and fishing would’ve been banned at the same time.
If hunting is unacceptable then so is catching a fish with a hook and hanging onto it while it desperately tried to free itself.

Hunting for food and hunting for sport are two completely different matters.

Hunting for food and hunting for sport are two completely different matters

Up to a point, yes, but to borrow Andante's fishing analogy I doubt most anglers are doing it out of hunger and a desperate need to put something on the table

On the other hand, though, they don't tend to dress up in "posh clothes" or attend hunt balls at some stately pile, and they're not perceived to look down their noses at the plebs from their positions atop a well mettled steed