Is Sir Michael Parkinson within his rights?

[flaviaritt]

Says men are funnier than women. He says, ‘It's a very contentious statement, but they're much better'.

My view is that, by the age of 85, if you think men are funnier than women, it’s just your opinion based on your experience and nobody should be getting riled up about it.

Reasonable?

@flaviaritt

Let’s imagine, for a moment, that a person went to an art gallery and observed a few hundred paintings, where the gallery had specifically curated the collection so that it contained an equal number by men and women. If they picked their favourite twenty and they were all women, would it not be reasonable for them to say that, in their subjective opinion, women produced better paintings than men?

Of course not. That means they’re judging all art based on the few hundred they’d seen. It means that from the very small selection they’ve seen they think men are worse at art. Which is ridiculous.

Okay, Pumper. I have to say, I admire your sheer persistence.

What if that same person could view a thousand works? A million? At what point (in your mind) is it okay for a person to make the move from the particular to the general in terms of their own subjective viewpoint without you accusing them of prejudice?

@flaviaritt

Okay, Pumper. I have to say, I admire your sheer persistence.

What if that same person could view a thousand works? A million? At what point (in your mind) is it okay for a person to make the move from the particular to the general in terms of their own subjective viewpoint without you accusing them of prejudice?

Well, never. I would have thought that’s fairly obvious. Why would you group people by sex as a way of showing how good they are at something that has absolutely nothing to do with what sex they are? Or race?

Well, never. I would have thought that’s fairly obvious. Why would you group people by sex as a way of showing how good they are at something that has absolutely nothing to do with what sex they are? Or race?

But clearly if you choose (blindly) a thousand works out a million and ALL were painted by women, it’s highly, highly unlikely to be chance. So how can it be unreasonable to say that you, individually, believe women are better painters than men?

I think you are being profoundly unreasonable, and almost robotic in your understanding of artistic subjectivity versus prejudice. Work on that.

@flaviaritt

Well, never. I would have thought that’s fairly obvious. Why would you group people by sex as a way of showing how good they are at something that has absolutely nothing to do with what sex they are? Or race?

But clearly if you choose (blindly) a thousand works out a million and ALL were painted by women, it’s highly, highly unlikely to be chance. So how can it be unreasonable to say that you, individually, believe women are better painters than men?

I think you are being profoundly unreasonable, and almost robotic in your understanding of artistic subjectivity versus prejudice. Work on that.

In this mythical situation that you’ve created in your head to absolve Michael Parkinson for his sexist statement? What a strange person you are.

Unless you think there’s something in the vagina, or the X chromosome, that makes women better at art?

There is no artistic subjectivity in grouping people by sex or race. You can’t possibly believe there is.

@flaviaritt

Well, never. I would have thought that’s fairly obvious. Why would you group people by sex as a way of showing how good they are at something that has absolutely nothing to do with what sex they are? Or race?

But clearly if you choose (blindly) a thousand works out a million and ALL were painted by women, it’s highly, highly unlikely to be chance. So how can it be unreasonable to say that you, individually, believe women are better painters than men?

I think you are being profoundly unreasonable, and almost robotic in your understanding of artistic subjectivity versus prejudice. Work on that.

And also, because you really seem to struggle with equivalents, that’s not a fair comparison to comedy. If art was massively dominated by women, if men were scoffed for trying to take part and pigeon-holed into making a particular type of art, which they were then accused of over doing and not being as good at it as women, we could also have a discussion about the ‘types’ of art open to men, and why people feel comfortable making blanket statements like penis = less good at art.

But that’s not the case either.

We are obviously very different people, Pumper. We’re going in circles, now, however.

@flaviaritt

We are obviously very different people, Pumper. We’re going in circles, now, however.

We are, I think. One of us groups people by sex or race, regardless of talent. The other one is me.

One of us groups people by sex or race, regardless of talent.

😂

@flaviaritt

One of us groups people by sex or race, regardless of talent.

😂

Also one of us (me, this time) knows what free speech is.

Also one of us (me, this time) knows what free speech is.

😂

@flaviaritt

Also one of us (me, this time) knows what free speech is.

😂

And one of us, again me, knows what censorship means. And it isn’t getting your sexist opinion printed in a national newspaper.

And one of us, again me, knows what censorship means. And it isn’t getting your sexist opinion printed in a national newspaper.

😂

I do like you, Pumper. I do.

@flaviaritt

And one of us, again me, knows what censorship means. And it isn’t getting your sexist opinion printed in a national newspaper.

😂

I do like you, Pumper. I do.

That’s because I’m not scared to call out sexism, or racism. You’ve learned a lot from this thread - and genuinely, I’m glad for you. Imagine if you’d had this conversation in real life!

I think it’s because you can use a comma. That’s rare, these days.

@flaviaritt

I think it’s because you can use a comma. That’s rare, these days.

English isn’t my first language. I don’t know if that makes me worse at art or comedy or whatever. What does MP say about foreigners?

I’m not even accusing the guy of being sexist. I’m accusing him of being a windbag with a public platform making useless comments that promote sexism and could be used to justify excluding one group from an entire industry.

If a woman with a public platform started pointing out the hairline of every male she came across and linking each hairline type with various negative personality traits based on her own experience would you think that would be well-received by men?
Reasonable?

What does MP say about foreigners?

Christ, I don’t know.

I’m not even accusing the guy of being sexist. I’m accusing him of being a windbag with a public platform making useless comments that promote sexism and could be used to justify excluding one group from an entire industry.

And that view is yours, and you are entirely within your rights to hold it.

@flaviaritt

What does MP say about foreigners?

Christ, I don’t know.

Surely British people are better than the Spanish? Or the French? Or the Americans? at something?

It’ll just be his racist opinion, that’s all. His right to be a racist with nobody getting riled up about it?

If what he meant was that he finds male comedians funnier, then fair enough but he probably could've worded it better. Comedy is subjective, different people find different things funny. Id probably agree with him, my experience is that the male comedians I've seen have been funnier than the female ones I've seen. But I couldn't say the male comedians are funnier the female comedians as an overall fact. Thatd be stupid and sexist.

It’ll just be his racist opinion, that’s all. His right to be a racist with nobody getting riled up about it?

Erm.. I don’t believe we should get riled up if MP says the English are better at cricket, or Spanish people are better at making paella. If he said the Spanish are duplicitous fools or the English are arrogant bastards, I would tend to question it a bit more.

@flaviaritt

It’ll just be his racist opinion, that’s all. His right to be a racist with nobody getting riled up about it?

Erm.. I don’t believe we should get riled up if MP says the English are better at cricket, or Spanish people are better at making paella. If he said the Spanish are duplicitous fools or the English are arrogant bastards, I would tend to question it a bit more.

And if he said English people are more intelligent than Spanish people? At what point are we allowed to get riled up, in your world?

Where do you draw the line exactly?

Are you ok with any observations about any group based upon any characteristic?

And if he said English people are more intelligent than Spanish people? At what point are we allowed to get riled up, in your world?

In my world, you’re allowed to get riled up if you like. I wouldn’t call his opinion that English people (to him) appeared more intelligent than Spanish people racist. It might be xenophobic. But what if he was Spanish and saying the same thing? Sometimes, as I’ve been saying. if a comment is based on long observation, it’s not prejudice. It’s just your own experience.