To suggest that firework phobias in dogs are more manageable than you might think

[Veterinari]

Every Bonfire night/Christmas/New year there are threads on this.

Most dog owners will know the basics:
Behave normally, have the radio on
Ensure dog has a safe dark comfortable den to hide in
Offer reassurance - you cannot reinforce fear
Long walk during the day to tire out followed by a good feed - more likely to be content and less reactive
Distract with licki mats/frozen kong etc

But also:
Get your dog checked for chronic painful disease - arthritis and dental disease are common and noise phobias are strongly correlated with chronically painful conditions. Treating the pain has been shown to reduce noise phobias (and is good for welfare)
Start firework desensitisation therapy using apps played at low volume or the 'sounds scary' resource.

Use appropriate medication:
Speak to your vet - sileo and pexicon are the licensed medications and can be game changing
Also pain relief if there's an underlying painful condition.

For milder anxieties supplements like zylkene, yucalm etc may help - again speak to your vet or behaviourist.

Adaptil (pheromone) alone is unlikely to make any difference in a phobic dog. Genuine panic/phobia usually needs medication

Thunder shirts and other complementary approaches can be helpful for some dogs but the response varies

It’s why I don’t get veterinari’s lack of concern over horses/cows/sheep and other wildlife.

I don't get her lack of concern over Brexit!!!!

Oh, wait, I do. It's not what this thread is about.

@justawoman

That’s interesting. My dog is almost 6 and has never minded fireworks before, but this year is showing signs of fear like not wanting to go out for her last pee in the garden at night (I take her out the front on a lead and she minds that less) and generally looking a bit scared and finding a dark hideyhole. She does have arthritis is one hip and is on anti inflammatory medication for that. Perhaps I should take her back to the vet to check her pain is under control? She did look a bit stiff on her walk.

Thank you for the info, OP. I had no idea about the link between pain and phobia and I don’t know why you’re getting sarky responses.

On pain: my vet has suggested laser therapy for the hip joint. I’m a bit skeptical as this isn’t something I’ve heard of and I keep wondering, if it’s effective why don’t they do it for humans? Do you have a view on that, or on other pain control strategies?

@justawoman

Your dog's situation is a classic example of a situation where underlying pain could contribute to noise anxiety. Especially as you've noticed increasing clinical signs related to the arthritis too.

Laser therapy is generally safe and may be helpful in some dogs but the research results are mixed: https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/uses-evidence-and-safety-of-laser-therapy/

I've certainly had some colleagues who've had great clinical results with it in other species with arthritis. Other supportive therapies include acupuncture and hydrotherapy, again responses vary but some responses can be very good.

I'm assuming the medication your dog is on is an anti-inflammatory? These are great for arthritis pain but as arthritis progresses the joint capsule and surrounding nerves may also become inflamed. This can cause a different type of pain (nerve pain) that isn't treated by the usual anti inflammatories, so it's worth discussing additional meds that may reduce nerve pain with your vet.

I hope this helps - if not then I'm sure @Kcar will have some expert advice

Thanks, that’s helpful. I’ll have another chat with the vet. The tablets she’s on are carprodyl.

@SallySolardel

It’s why I don’t get veterinari’s lack of concern over horses/cows/sheep and other wildlife.

I don't get her lack of concern over Brexit!!!!

Oh, wait, I do. It's not what this thread is about.

Thank you

I feel like quite a lot of posters in this thread have decided that my thread title and OP are irrelevant because they've decided what my thread should be about

@justawoman

Thanks, that’s helpful. I’ll have another chat with the vet. The tablets she’s on are carprodyl.

Yes that's an anti inflammatory. It's a good drug. There are other more 'selective' anti inflammatories that may work a bit better. But often adding in a different type of drug (nerve pain drug) in addition to the anti inflammatory is often more effective, and sometimes means you can use lower doses too which increases safety.

It's also worth remembering that pain can create generalised anxiety - you might notice she becomes more cautious or 'worried' about things she previously didn't mind,

I’m by no means an expert but thought I’d add my experience which may be useful to a relative new by like myself. I read that if your new dog appears very nervous not to buy into the fear and to make a drama of it. Our rescue dog was nervous of most noises, loud motor vehicles and machinery etc and first Guy Fawkes wasn’t pleasant. However we told him it wasn’t anything to worry about, gave him a place of safety and carried on as normal. He’s just had his 3rd 5/11 with us and there’s been barely a quiver but he has given a couple of defiant barks at a particularly loud bang, which I interpret as his feeling confident and in charge.
I empathise with those whose dogs are traumatised and I guess it has a lot to do with personality etc but would like new owners to know it isn’t inevitable. Nevertheless I’d have all “bangers” etc other noisy fireworks banned — unnecessary and a waste of money

Yes, I agree. I’ve always been completely nonchalant if she’s ever shown fear at something non-threatening and I can see her watching me and taking her cue from me. This fireworks fear is new for her so I do think she might be in pain.

@Antonin

I’m by no means an expert but thought I’d add my experience which may be useful to a relative new by like myself. I read that if your new dog appears very nervous not to buy into the fear and to make a drama of it. Our rescue dog was nervous of most noises, loud motor vehicles and machinery etc and first Guy Fawkes wasn’t pleasant. However we told him it wasn’t anything to worry about, gave him a place of safety and carried on as normal. He’s just had his 3rd 5/11 with us and there’s been barely a quiver but he has given a couple of defiant barks at a particularly loud bang, which I interpret as his feeling confident and in charge. I empathise with those whose dogs are traumatised and I guess it has a lot to do with personality etc but would like new owners to know it isn’t inevitable. Nevertheless I’d have all “bangers” etc other noisy fireworks banned — unnecessary and a waste of money

Yes you're quite right in that there can be a social contagion element to anxiety and a free op have recounted similar stories - it's why it's important to carry on as normal.

I wouldn't always interpret barking as confidence though, especially in a nervy dog. It's often part of the suite of behaviours that dogs use to create distance between themselves and a perceived threat. Distance-creation behaviours often come from a feeling of anxiety. In a similar way most 'aggressive' behaviours in dogs are actually fear-driven

In case anyone is interested in better understanding the link between pain and behaviour problems in dogs, this recent article is really interesting
www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/2/318/htm?fbclid=IwAR1IAyjBCs-JV6JBPianGzkpqxmgzLUNch3bDbGRbZqM6tVXv_4gsknYAHI

Thank you for your most excellent advice. None of us with scared dogs had even CONSIDERED speaking to our vets, trying to desensitise them etc, or getting them health checks. Or giving them any safe spaces to go.
Nope, we leave them to get in with it. 🙄

@Pugdogmom

Thank you for your most excellent advice. None of us with scared dogs had even CONSIDERED speaking to our vets, trying to desensitise them etc, or getting them health checks. Or giving them any safe spaces to go. Nope, we leave them to get in with it. 🙄

@Pugdogmom The thread may not be helpful for you, but it has been for several others. Rather than be unkind, why not simply move on to a different thread?

I can knock my current dog out with calming treats, but he still needs to be near/on me and still shakes. We also can't get him to go outside when he suspects that a firework might go off. I'm an experienced dog owner - having had the buggers all my life - but with some dogs, nothing works.

There is also a bigger argument about the selfishness of people letting off fireworks - the danger to wildlife, the twats who throw fireworks at people, the total disregard for other people's property and the very real fire risk. It's unnecessary and dangerous and totally antisocial.

@Veterinari my whinge isn't aimed at you, just the general feeling of despair I have every bonfire night and some twats with fireworks.

What are the chances of so many people who can't understand that, although the advice given isn't relevant to their dog, it might be helpful to someone else, all being on one thread? 🤔

In my experience it's unusual that the situation can't be improved for dogs. However the 'nothing works' mindset is fairly common in owners that are managing dogs with phobias and has cropped up a few times on this thread. Those owners also haven't been back to outline what they've tried before so its difficult to give advice without more info. It may be that specific clinical veterinary behavioural support is needed but often there are other things worth trying too.

I'm happy to offer support or pointers if I can

We had to get ACP and Diazepam for our dog. He was terrified of fireworks. We tried everything the thunder shirt was useless. The problem is the fireworks including Diwali ones go on for about two weeks. You can't sedate your dog every day for two weeks. They even go off during the day round here.

@ExclamationPerfume

We had to get ACP and Diazepam for our dog. He was terrified of fireworks. We tried everything the thunder shirt was useless. The problem is the fireworks including Diwali ones go on for about two weeks. You can't sedate your dog every day for two weeks. They even go off during the day round here.

@ExclamationPerfume

ACP is contraindicated in firework phobias. It causes sedation but doesn't reduce anxiety which means the dog cannot express its fear though it does still feel it. This usually results in an escalation of the fear response each time (the thunder phobia in the 'Marley and me' book is a classic example of this). It's also a welfare issue as the dog still experiences fear and isn't able to move to hide or use any 'coping mechanisms'. The diazepam is an anti anxiety drug but isn't that effective in my experience. I'd guess if as the ACP was used as well it, wasn't that effective in yours either?

The meds I mentioned in my OP are much more effective at addressing the underlying fear response and as they are licensed, should be used as a first line. Other off license drugs such as alprazolam or trazadone are also often effective

The footage of rspca rehoming centre being overwhelmed with fireworks makes me wonder how well those dogs will cope going foward
metro.co.uk/video/thugs-pelt-fireworks-animal-hospital-london-2287880/?ito=vjs-link

I'm with you @Veterinari. So many people that l knot get annoyed every year but do little inbetween to help their dogs. We had a very nervous rescue and found desensitisation therapy worked (with medication on the worst nights : quite a few around here!)

@Tootsietoot

I'm with you *@Veterinari*. So many people that l knot get annoyed every year but do little inbetween to help their dogs. We had a very nervous rescue and found desensitisation therapy worked (with medication on the worst nights : quite a few around here!)

Thanks @Tootsietoot Managing any behavioural disorder is challenging, but noise phobias can be a huge welfare issue and are often associated with other problems too.

It's great that your approach worked - well done,