Very cold classrooms

[ZolaGrey]

My 10 year older daughter just got in the car after school and she is frozen, her lips are chapped and her fingers are freezing.

It turns out that the school have decided not to heat the classrooms and that all doors and windows have to be open all the time, it's been around 3-6° all day here. She's had her coat on all day.

I've said that she could take a hoodie or similar in tomorrow but she said they're not allowed as it's not uniform, they have however been told they can wear hats, scarves and fingerless gloves in the classroom

I would imagine that if I kept my house unheated, with all the doors and windows open all the time that I would be accused of some kind of neglect.

Am I right to be unhappy about the set up? I'm a bit over stressed at the minute so I'm not sure how reasoned my reactions are to things currently!

How are everybody else's school approaching this? Has anybody had any logics information to back up this approach?

@Marcipex

Thermals, cowl, fingerless gloves, and frequent intervals of exercise to warm up.

School have said no gloves/scarves etc.

@Feministicon

I can’t believe people are telling OP to simply home school 😂😂😂 Yes the windows should be open but uniform rules should be relaxed.

Yes, funny isn't it? As funny as MNers who tell teachers who are worried for their health and the lives of CEV family members to resign because they're clearly off their rockers. That's what's been happening on here since May.

We had an email today, saying they can wear their school jumper. Only the majority of pupils don’t have them as they are an optional item that the majority opt out of. Not only is it expensive the school supplier is incredibly slow and there is no option to purchase in person now.

The other issue of layering clothes is the fact all items of clothing have to be washed each night. So unless you can afford to buy enough of each item it’s impossible to wash and dry it all over night.

They have to stay outside even in heavy rain for break and lunch and then sit soaking wet in a freezing cold classroom.

I don’t know what the solution is as ventilation is important but for many pupils this is not going to work.

ZolaGrey sorry, are fingerless gloves not allowed? I can understand them not wanting scarves trailing about, which is why I said a cowl.

I’d buy thermals and warm socks, and I’d request that they can wear fingerless gloves indoors.
I think they should have heating on myself, plus windows open. Our primary is keeping doors open too.

Op some teachers are more than aware of the virus and the nature of the virus than others. Some teachers shut windows and encourage group work, sharing resources, etc. Others are very aware of the virus, open windows, encourage warmer clothing...

Which one do you want? I have 2 dc and I'd prefer a virus aware teacher but with sensible uniform rules. My dc are in different schools, both tell me windows are open and they are warm.

Neither is in tights yet or vests!..

Angel it will work if people are sensible about clothing.
If either school tried to pull this utter petty non sensical nonsense I'd not take it lying down.
We are in a critical moment in time this is not the time to fiddle whilst Rome burns.

This absolutely is not acceptable.

All schools are not legally bound to do this as my daughter’s year 4 class are not doing this. If they did I would be withdrawing her from school immediately. She has severe asthma that is triggered by cold air. I am not risking her health for something that is not even evidence based.

@Madwife123 and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary the virus is airborne so I will not be risking the health of myself or unborn baby by closing the windows.

@Glitterynails Assuming you are a pregnant teacher by the statement? In which case you should not be classroom based as per RCOG guidelines. It’s not acceptable to put students at risk because your employer is failing to follow guidelines and keep you safe.

Can you imagine if the nurses in the respiratory ward opened all the windows and doors for their own safety? Death rate goes sky high instantly.

If classrooms are not safe without inadequate and potentially dangerous conditions then they should not be open.

@Madwife123
The DfE guidance states that pregnant school staff should continue to attend school. They believe in the magical covid shield that schools have. Schools are not safe. There is no social distancing and we are told not to wear masks in classrooms. I believe that medical staff on wards are allowed to wear PPE.

The PPE that medical staff wear protects the patient not the staff. You only get PPE to protect you if the patient has confirmed covid and you are performing an aerosol generating procedure.

How can the DfE guidelines overrule the RCOG guidelines? You know the actual experts with medical training and knowledge for all things pregnancy related.

Again this needs taking higher, if the situation isn’t safe than do something about it. A strike? Mass walk out? Anything except make the defenceless students suffer for something that isn’t their choice.

At my school the heating is on and the windows all open. It's an insane waste of money but at least it's warm enough to work and yet still well ventilated which schools have to do legally (and is apparently is the key to preventing Covid in an indoor environment).

@Glitterynails

Some information for you. Take it into work, ask for a risk assessment. Ask how they can keep you safe at work as they are legally obligated to do so when evidence shows that pregnant women are clinically vulnerable and the guidelines state you must social distance or work from home if this is not possible. Ask them to put their response in writing and then take it to your union. Even pregnant nurses and midwives are working from home after 28 weeks as occupational health is too scared of a lawsuit and they almost never protect their staff.

@Madwife123
There is evidence that surgical masks do provide some protection to the wearer. I have also never seen a ward the size of my classroom crammed full with 32 children and 3 adults. Something tells me that medical staff get to see proof of their patients covid test results instead of being told to take the patient’s parent’s word for it being negative. This isn’t to say teachers have it worse than medical staff at all but just that your analogy of a ward and a classroom wasn’t realistic.

The RCOG archived their guidance and the DfE took this to mean that school is a safe environment for pregnant teachers. There is no additional funding for schools so what is a school supposed to do?

If classrooms are not safe without inadequate and potentially dangerous conditions then they should not be open.

🤦 Well yes, but they are (and Mumsnetters demanded this).

@Glitterynails

I’ve just added a screenshot of the current RCOG guidelines and the NHS guidelines. It’s still clearly stating pregnant women are at increased risk that has never changed.

‘Some’ protection. Are you aware that if a patient is confirmed to be covid positive that you are required to help them dress, eat, wash, deliver their baby with nothing more than a surgical mask that according to evidence “may” offer “some” protection. You only get protection for yourself if it’s an aerosol generating procedure. The fact that positive patients are literally coughing in your face doesn’t count obviously.

As well as this my trust has now had 3 recalls on the surgical masks being provided to staff as they are expired, fraudulently made, redated or fake stock. Makes you feel so safe when this happens when you’ve been wearing that mask brand for the last 6 weeks. Plus we have to turn our track and trace off at work to make sure we don’t get any notifications to isolate because of course there’s no chance that we are risk with the shambles of PPE we are provided with.

I’m agreeing your situation is unacceptable and offering you advice but please don’t think the inadequate PPE offered to nurses would make any difference at all. It’s not a race to the bottom between professions. The only way we solve this is supporting each other and making a stand. By accepting unsafe environments and causing those we care for to suffer as a result we are becoming complacent to the problem.

How cold can schools let it get safely? There has to be a tipping point where it's physically detrimental, they aren't learning anything and school starts to become a negative experience in their minds.

If classrooms are not safe without inadequate and potentially dangerous conditions then they should not be open

Indeed. There do seem to be a lot of parents on here that just want them open and don’t care about the details though.

I live in Scotland and what will be enough for them to close do we need it to be minus 3 outside and the snow blowing in through the windows .

Madwife123

All clinically vulnerable staff are expected to work in schools throughout lockdown, including pregnant women. CEV children are expected to attend school unless their own doctor tells them not to.

I am CV (not pregnant, other reasons) and have been in school since September, working right across the school, with no SDing, etc. It felt inevitable that, no matter how much I cleaned etc, I would be exposed to covid. I caught it a month ago. I'm still off work trying to recover.

The government has specifically said that CV staff, including pregnant staff, should still be teaching in class.

My bumper M&S parcel arrived yesterday - lots of thermal vests and tights, ready for when I return. New big coat ready for,the extra outdoor play duties. Think I need to order some more fingerless gloves - wondering if there are thermal ones.

My arthritis is a;ready playing up as I was told to not take my methotrexate during the time I have been recovering from covid. Which then means I'm getting more aches and pains. Think I need to restart it on Monday if I'm heading back into the classroom the week after.

Arthritis pain due to cold is bad enough , let alone without my strongest arthritis medication being taken.

Have already sent my repeat prescription in for extra pain medication- ready for the cold weather.

It's time for parents to make a choice. Either they need to back the measures schools have been told by the DFe to take, or they want schools to close. Because you can't have both.

@Witchcraftandhokum

It's time for parents to make a choice. Either they need to back the measures schools have been told by the DFe to take, or they want schools to close. Because you can't have both.

It's not an either/or situation. There is a middle ground. As many many people here have said, including myself, the measures taken in class would be no issue if they relaxed the uniform policy. It's not difficult.

It’s a balance.

I’ve always felt classrooms in my school were too hot and stuffy during the winter. Most teachers have the heating cranked up and never open windows or doors. I would walk into some rooms and feel lightheaded and need to throw open the windows.

Obviously this term has been different - we are heating on low, windows open with external doors opened during break times and lunch times when the classroom is empty.
It isn’t idea and the temperature is lower than I would choose but it is bearable and doesn’t impeded anyone’s ability to work or focus.

Coincidently the amount of staff and pupils suffering from coughs and colds is minuscule compared to a normal November.
Obviously this could also be linked to the increased hand washing, table wiping and general hygiene

@Witchcraftandhokum

It's time for parents to make a choice. Either they need to back the measures schools have been told by the DFe to take, or they want schools to close. Because you can't have both.

The DFE hasn't said that heating should be off. In fact the gov website says classrooms should be comfortable.

While uniform is encouraged (not a must ) that doesn't mean that some rules can't be relaxed, like allowing children to wear boots or not insisting in no black tights/leggings for girls.
Most of the thermal or fleece lined options suggested on here ,come in black . Black is not allowed at DD's school.

It's little things that with a bit of compromise,common sense and leniency can keep both parties safe and mostly happy.