To feel like this is discrimination towards certain trades

[Unicorns87]

Basically I'm looking for other people's opinions on this matter. I understand it will probably be extremely mixed views.
But I am very confused by how it works and how it is fair to certain people like myself.

I am a self-employed mobile nail technician. I am only part-time now because I have a little boy and my job itself isn't a huge earner anyway. After all my costs, I pretty much take minimum wage.

My trade is one of the ones that has been deemed unsafe/illegal to carry out during lockdown. So the government have told me I cannot under any circumstances work but only paid me 80%, then 70% and now 40% when claiming the SEISS.

However, I have a friend who has been honest with me about her partner. He is a carpenter. He is already on a very high wage and therefore claimed almost £7,000 for the first 3 months SEISS at 80%.
But the type of work he does meant that he was actually able to carry on working and earned almost what he would have done had coronavirus not occured.
He then claimed the 2nd lot and I expect will claim the 3rd as because he is self employed and takes his own money, he will somehow make it look like he hasn't earned what he would have done.
Therefore, she admitted that they are thousands of pounds better off then what they would have been.

How is this fair. It's a simple case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
How is it fair that the people who have been told cannot work can still only claim the same amount as what the people who have been told can work if they can socially distance.
Surely those type of trades should have only been able to claim a fraction of what the trades who werent allowed to work could.

My husband was then made redundant, has had to take a huge paycut and in the second lockdown I have been told I cannot work again but can only claim 40%.
We are going to lose our home.
Yet my friend and her partner and I'm sure plenty of others are laughing.

they're using anecdote rather than facts/statistics to support who they deem "worthy" and kick those they deem unworthy.

Badbadbunny, politically motivated then, even if its momentum doesn't come from whoever is currently in power?

In many cases the restrictions do seem unfair but have you thought of creating a sort of mobile box contraption made from perspex. It would have to be built with those piano hinges so you could fold away and would obviously not be so comfy.
So you and customer sitting on opposite sides with just the hands through a slot, sort of how some shops and post offices have. Both masked up with limited talk.
I'm sorry if f this sounds a little daft but desperate times and all.

I am employed part time zero hours contract, and was self employed separately as well. I claimed the first SE grant because I genuinely couldn’t do the usual self employed stuff in lockdown. The situation then changed so I could but I recently decided to just end the business rather than struggle with it anymore - therefore I haven’t claimed the second grant as that would be fraudulent. They are not playing the system, they are committing fraud.

Its fraud plain and simple. I find it disgusting that he would claim money when he has no need to

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

Its fraud plain and simple. I find it disgusting that he would claim money when he has no need to

Have you bothered to read the actual law? Don't blame individual traders for poorly written anomalous laws. It's quite possible, if not likely, that the person in question hasn't committed any fraud or broken any laws. There was NO requirement to stop trading nor for the extra costs/reduced sales due to Covid to be any particular monetary level. It is quite within the law for a business to have £1,000 of extra costs, and still legally be entitled to £7,500 of support - in fact there is no mechanism for claiming less than the specified amount of support - it's all or nothing, and determined by HMRC/treasury. Don't blame people for mistakes made by civil servants, government ministers, and HMRC/treasury officials.

I predict lots of people like OP deciding to quietly do black market trading. People will get to know which hairdresser, cleaner, etc will come to your house and take cash payment. Don't ask, don't tell.

All that work HMRC have been doing to get people away from sneaky cash in hand will be set back by years.

I won't be taking part in that side of the economy but I bet huge numbers of other people will.

@Badbadbunny That still does not take away from the fact that as tax payers we and our children will be paying for this for decades, so why do people have to be so greedy. If you can still work, why on earth would you apply for more money than us needed. It is selfish in the extreme

[quote NannyOggsWhiskyStash]@Badbadbunny That still does not take away from the fact that as tax payers we and our children will be paying for this for decades, so why do people have to be so greedy. If you can still work, why on earth would you apply for more money than us needed. It is selfish in the extreme[/quote]
For me personally... I claimed the first two SEISS payments, despite not losing much cash in the first period because

A. I did lose a client in June. They wouldn't normally hire me very much at that time but losing them was a direct consequence of covid - a valid reason to claim

B. I had to buy protective equipment to continue trading - a valid reason to claim

C. I could not work as normal after 14th July - a valid reason to claim

I will claim the next two installments because my work is now decimated and will be for some time. Had I not claimed the first time round I would get nothing!

Anybody watching me earlier this year, over summer, would have said I was as busy as ever. My accounts show quite a different tale. OPs carpenter might be in a similar position. OP said as much

But the type of work he does meant that he was actually able to carry on working and earned almost what he would have done had coronavirus not occured.

The jiggling of books is supposition as it hasn't happened yet!

[quote NannyOggsWhiskyStash]@Badbadbunny That still does not take away from the fact that as tax payers we and our children will be paying for this for decades, so why do people have to be so greedy. If you can still work, why on earth would you apply for more money than us needed. It is selfish in the extreme[/quote]
As I explained, it's all or nothing. You can't claim a smaller amount than HMRC/Gov.UK says you're due. If your profits are down by £1,000 but the website says you're entitled to £7,500, you can't claim only the £1,000. It's a very blunt instrument.

On the other side, even if you're profits are down by £10,000, if the website says you're entitled to nothing, then you get nothing, and that is based on pretty incoherent qualifying criteria, such as if you started the business after 6/4/19 or started it mid way through 2018 but had wages or a taxable pension lump sum in the same 2018/19 year of more than your business start up profits.

If you can still work, why on earth would you apply for more money than us needed. It is selfish in the extreme And do remember that all of that wll be taxed next year!

I don’t believe for a minute that his income wasn’t hit during the first lockdown, building sites were closed & most tradesmen were only going in to homes for emergency repair (generally plumbers & electricians)
He might have been busy in the last couple of months but I’d bet he wasn’t in April, May & June.

@nancy75

I don’t believe for a minute that his income wasn’t hit during the first lockdown, building sites were closed & most tradesmen were only going in to homes for emergency repair (generally plumbers & electricians) He might have been busy in the last couple of months but I’d bet he wasn’t in April, May & June.

Fully agree. People have short memories. The initial lockdown was pretty harsh, not necessarily because of the rules, but because a lot of firms/organisations were misled by the media (BBC in particular) into closing when they didn't have to. As you say, builders merchants, supplies, DIY shops etc were generally closed for the first few weeks, so a tradesman would have had trouble trading even if they wanted to. Emergency only repairs were the norm, i.e. emergency plumbers, locksmiths etc. We needed a locksmith and he would only come out if we would confirm it was an emergency and that we'd confirm that if he was stopped by the police - there were cases of the police stopping cars, stopping people, etc right at the start to check they were "essential" journeys!

There were people on here having kittens because gardeners with no customer contact at all were still working - no way was this bloke in & out of houses & businesses

Is that true @CuriousaboutSamphire?

Had I not claimed the first time round I would get nothing!

I claimed the first but not the 2nd as I was working but I will definitely need the third.

I am sure I saw that you could claim 2nd if you didn't claim 1st.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension

It depends on whether you were eligible to have claimed or not - the wording has been changed since I read the first version! Apologies. Have a look, see what you think!

have been previously eligible for the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme first and second grant (although they do not have to have claimed the previous grants)

Phew I can

Sorry for the scare. As I said, the first publication about the third round said you had to have claimed... but things have changed since then and I hadn't taken much notice as I did claim

We'll probably start a "Claim now" thread, as we have had before, when we get to the end of the month - or whatever date they may change it to!

He's committing fraud. His business was not "adversely affected by Coronavirus"

OP said it has.

No worries @CuriousaboutSamphire