Employer put me at risk?

[matchingsocks]

I am so annoyed with my employer which is an NHS Primary Care Trust. Since the beginning of lockdown the GPs have been in hiding and have steadfastly refused to complete any home visits. Instead they have sent out their Nurses and therapists. Sometimes, to patients who quite obviously have covid symptoms when we get there (despite them denying this on the phone).
Often there are relatives present who have travelled from other towns to support their relative, fair enough.
My issue is, since the very beginning we have been banned from asking patients or relatives to wear a mask whilst we are present (as they are in their own home).
I have complained about this, right up to director level but been told it is absolutely not permissible to encourage a patient to wear PPE.
Can you imagine rocking up at a GPs surgery and being allowed in without a mask on? Yet as DNs we are not allowed to ask the same.
Well I am now quite poorly with Covid. Caught, I am sure, from a patient who was extremely poorly with it.
AIBU to think they have failed in their duty of care to me?
We have lost a team member to this disease who will not see her DC grow up because of some ridiculous policy by our directors.
I wear a mask/PPE to protect my patients, is it so wrong to expect the same in return?
Right now I feel like sueing them.

Ask for the RA and method statement.If they can't provide one, stop working until they do

Yes a big bombastic statement that may well work in your industry but not in NHS

We are compelled and have code of ethics and an actual need to undertake health interventions

If nhs honestly stuck to a rules is rules approach many vulnerable people would not be seen at home. In real life, in visits undertaken the environmental conditions are often shocking & dangerous. Trip hazards, mice infestation, unsanitary conditions, fire loading, fire hazards,drug paraphernalia

Im caught a GP out wih this the other week. One of my patients were very poorly not with COVID and could not leave the house as they were so ill. I rang up and requested a home visit and the GP asked me to either put her in my car and bring her to the surgery ( with D and V) yeh right. Or come to the surgery pick up and thermometer and blood pressure cuff and report back. I'm an OT not a nurse or GP. Told him he needa to donhis own job what an idiot.

@MotherOfGremlins

A few HCPs have said that the public's masks are next to useless because we don't know how to wear them / they're not the right type.

It might be quite nice if someone could let us know the right type, and what we're doing wrong with wearing them...

@MotherOfGremlins info from WHO

www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

Op that’s appalling. Our GPs are doing home visits and they take thermometer, masks for the pt/family to wear, PPE for themselves, alcohol wipes, hand gel, clinical waste bag -everything they they could possibly need.

That is shit

All my friends are dns and all patients wear masks during visits in Sheffield. Covid patients wear the full ppe apparently and so do the nurses

@BryanAdamsLeftAnkle

My ward ask patients to wear their masks when in their single room. They are asked to sleep in them too. Our patients have been wonderful and agreed. The only ones not expected to are dementia patients. Not one patient has refused. Even respiratory patients.

We wear our ppe. I work in acute medicine. Haven't had a single refuser. I have expected a few

There is no way I would wear a mask as I slept. I would wear one during outpatient care, but not if I needed to stay in hospital as an inpatient. I am due to have my baby is February, I hope they don’t try and make me wear a mask for the labour cause that ain’t happening.

What does your SOP say about PPE ?
We always temp check the patient and ask them to wear a mask. If they can’t wear a mask we double up with a visor.

@SentientAndCognisant

Ask for the RA and method statement.If they can't provide one, stop working until they do

Yes a big bombastic statement that may well work in your industry but not in NHS

We are compelled and have code of ethics and an actual need to undertake health interventions

If nhs honestly stuck to a rules is rules approach many vulnerable people would not be seen at home. In real life, in visits undertaken the environmental conditions are often shocking & dangerous. Trip hazards, mice infestation, unsanitary conditions, fire loading, fire hazards,drug paraphernalia

Absolutely. Plus it is nearly impossible and takes months and many meetings to pull out of providing healthcare in someone's home.

you can of course ask a patient / family to wear a mask, but I'm not sure how you'd enforce it.

Plus I can imagine the headlines now - my dying mother/ father/ didn't have their pain managed at the end of life because I didn't want to wear a mask in my own home and the DN refused to visit. It would be in the daily mail in seconds with a million comments about how nurses are lazy work shy demons who avoid doing any work.

DM has just come out of hospital following a fall which resulted in a hip replacement
She has tested negative for COVID
Bearing in mind she is housebound how would she catch COVID
I don’t want to ask her to wear a mask as she has dementia and finds it distressing

@JaceLancs

DM has just come out of hospital following a fall which resulted in a hip replacement She has tested negative for COVID Bearing in mind she is housebound how would she catch COVID I don’t want to ask her to wear a mask as she has dementia and finds it distressing

She could catch it through PTs coming to your house or any other visitor.

I would argue it’s your PPE that’s not good enough not the fault of the patient for not wearing any. How do you think dentists are managing?

@RobinHumphries

I would argue it’s your PPE that’s not good enough not the fault of the patient for not wearing any. How do you think dentists are managing?

Absolutely but who is paying for that? The customer.

Trusts won't purchase FFp3 masks because they are costly. Added to which, they follow PHE guidance, which recommends FR surgical masks (due to costs and availability).

OP, in your shoes, I'd perform my own checks on entry to a service users home (temp), ask them to wear a mask but also by my own supply of FFp3 to wear when visiting.

I’m really confused by this thread. During the last lockdown nurses attended at our house in full PPE but made no mention of us wearing masks. Equally there has been a couple of hospital admissions - masks were worn on initial entry but once testing had come back we didn’t have to wear the masks anymore.

I appreciate that it is a risk for community nurses but all of our community nurses have had full ppe and call before hand to check no new coughs/temp symptoms so the visit can go ahead. We’ve never been asked to wear masks in our own home.

Primary Care Trusts haven’t existed since 2013??

Patients behave differently at home than in hospital regard compliance
In hospital the whole institutional cues,rules & norms are present.the hospital is the dominant institution
At home,it’s private domain, with the norms & rules set by the individual

@BungleandGeorge

Primary Care Trusts haven’t existed since 2013??

Eh?? Maybe they're trusts in name only? Here are some that exist in the SE and London...

Guy's and St Thomas NHS Foundation Trust
Brighton and Sussex Universities Hospitals NHS Trust
Sussex Community NHS Foundation Trust
Royal Free London NHS Foundation Trust
Western Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust

Eh?? Maybe they're trusts in name only? Here are some that exist in the SE and London...

Those are foundation trusts (hospitals). Primary care trusts were replaced by clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in 2013.

@Reallybadidea

Eh?? Maybe they're trusts in name only? Here are some that exist in the SE and London...

Those are foundation trusts (hospitals). Primary care trusts were replaced by clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in 2013.

Sussex Community is not a hospital trust but it is a foundation trust (DNs, inpatient rehab, community therapies etc). I'm showing my ignorance here because it sounds like name changes more than anything...

But thanks for explaining.

I hope you feel better soon. Unless you have a patient who wouldn’t understand and would find it distressing I can’t believe you aren’t allowed to ask. I’ve had one home visit in lockdown, I was shielding and no symptoms and the nurse made me feel like I was bonkers for choosing to wear a mask!

About 2 months ago we were told that even when we see patients at home we are to request that they wear a surgical mask that we provide, unless there is a clinical need where we feel it is detrimental to their treatment. Originally they could wear their own face covering. Same goes for in hospital outpatient appointments where hospital provide a surgical mask and expect it to be worn. No-one has refused at home or in the hospital and standard exceptions are allowed

That is actually shocking. People who are quite capable of wearing a mask should do so even in their own homes.
They expect you to deliver top quality care yet are failing to protect their own staff. How morally wrong is that. How they sleep at night I do not know.

@EatTheHamTina it’s really quite complicated. people are not purposefully mean or trying to harm staff, however many people with condition such as impaired judgement or MH or dementia may decline to wear a mask, they not think it’s required, under estimate the risk, think it’s a conspiracy etc
It isn’t a purposeful choice to get staff. It’s a set of behaviour intrinsic to them that’s not easily explained

Have you contacted your union rep?
Please make sure you have copies of all communications concerning this that can't be tampered with.

OP, that's terrible. I would sign an online petition. I hope you make a fast and full recovery from Covid. Thanks for doing the job you do. It is appreciated.