AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

the same actively campaigning for lack of safety
What utter nonsense -another straw man argument —Not so—@noblegiraffe.
Masks are completely pointless anyway -they are only mandated because it gives people some feeling of control over their situation but in fact they are ineffective and indeed may well increase infection. If they actually worked there would not be the same level of rhinovirus this year in Germany as there is in every year. It is just a sop for the superstitious and panicky.
If you work in a school, as I do, there are always numerous infections circulating-this is nothing new. Teachers are far less likely to have symptoms because their immune systems are primed far mor than those who have infrequent contact with infections.
Teachers really should just get on with the job (which I and other teachers I work with in RL) and stop the endless whining for attention.

Masks are not pointless. There is now lots of evidence that they reduce viral dose.

some teachers don't feel scared by Covid possibly due to young age
All teachers are under 80! Which is why teachers other than a few vocal people on here are not panicking. Average of death by COVID is the same as average age of death for all causes and most teachers are numerate /again except for a tiny minority on here who make a lot of noise and can’t or won’t listen to a patient explanation of stats.

Interestingly the evidence and experiments shot that face masks are effective against coronaviruses and influenza viruses, but not rhinovirus.
Which would explain the reduction of flu but not rhinovirus in mask wearing countries this year.

Why do people jump to "panicking", "death" etc.
I have vulnerable life limited family members.
I do not want to be ill or have long Covid - and I'm in the prime category for long Covid.
There are other reasons other than death for wanting simple easy safety precautions put in place.

but the other two are very possible. So why not?

It begins the question, for me as an outsider, why one of your major unions (NEU) isn’t keeping the focus in campaigning for them?

Instead taking attention and headlines away from this important subject to ask for closures?

@WhyNotMe40 I have long Covid and no, it's definitely not something to dismiss like a lot of Mumsnet posters do. I've been ill for eight months now and, although most of the symptoms have gone (other than occasional coughing fits), I get completely breathless after the slightest activity and have debilitating dizzy spells. I also have brain fog and forget words and names.

I do worry about the lack of awareness about this shown by so many people. It's unknown how many people have long Covid, as a large number of us never tested positive; they weren't doing community testing back then. Plus a lot of seemingly 'mild' cases turn into long Covid.

Were you tested @Mittens030869

@Towelwaffle I was only tested three months after falling ill, so of course I didn't test positive then. I only had the test to reassure my DDs' headteacher that DD1 (who was in year 6) could go to school.

I was diagnosed by my GP surgery, however, as I had all the symptoms, including lack of smell and taste.

What utter nonsense -another straw man argument —Not so—@noblegiraffe.

The group that is actively campaigning against safety measures in schools is called UsforThem. Look them up, it’s not a straw man argument Susan

They’ve been on the front page of newspapers and all over this forum saying that children have ‘suffered enough’ and so shouldn’t experience anything different to normal. No masks, no social distancing, no being sent home when a classmate has covid etc etc. Not even teachers wearing masks because it might be ‘scary’.

And I love how you fucked up your crappy attempt at a dig.

I'm just asking as I had the same symptoms as you are listing a few years ago so before covid, and actually it did turn out I was quite poorly. I'm not doubting long covid exists (it exists in some form in every other virus so no reason it wouldn't with this)- but if you didn't get a positive test I personally would recommend getting it investigated. It likely was covid, but just in case. Obviously just my opinion from experience, again, it probably was covid, but the symptoms jumped out at me.

I think the unions and some teachers are shooting themselves in the foot a bit by being so vocal about wanting school closures rather than demands for PPE/safe working conditions.

To the general public who have worked through lockdown/received crap schooling for their kids etc it just makes you think of teachers as workshy and unwilling to pull their weight in this pandemic as an essential worker.

Whereas if most of the National conversation around schools was about masks and safety, there would be a lot more support.

Might sound harsh but just my honest opinion. I respect teachers but I have no respect for those jumping for schools to be closed rather than made safer.

Trouble is, it's too late now. There were also symptoms like nausea, which went on for weeks and kept coming back. I've had numerous viral illnesses over the years, including flu last year that became pneumonia, which left me with CFS. None of them were remotely like what I went through this year.

Also, my DD2 (8) fell ill a few days after me with high temperature, chest pains and headaches, and intense reaction to bright lights. It was only for four days in her case, but it was intense and pretty scary. (I was worrying about meningitis rather than COVID at the time, because she didn't have a cough. I now know that not everyone has a cough, and children mostly don't.)

If you look up the long Covid thread, you will see the number of posters who never tested positive or even had negative antibody tests. Testing doesn't always resolve everything. (I haven't had an antibody test.)

It actually reassured me to find out the number of people going through what I was for five months of temperature, coughing fits and just not getting better, because I'd previously been completely baffled by why I wasn't recovering, but was having 'false dawns' which were playing havoc with my mental health when my symptoms kept coming back.

My temperature finally stopped going up in August, thankfully.

I was also very ill in March and April. I couldn't breathe because of a buildup of thick phlegm which I couldn't cough up despite all my coughing. My DH called 999 twice because I literally was at the point of losing consciousness and my oxygen level was almost low enough to need hospitalisation when the paramedics checked my vital signs.

It was really scary.

I think the unions and some teachers are shooting themselves in the foot a bit by being so vocal about wanting school closures rather than demands for PPE/safe working conditions.

But it's only one teaching union calling for closures, the second biggest union is calling for safe working conditions and for some reason aren't getting the press traction.

I've been arguing for safe working conditions for teachers on here for ages, and the whole time I was accused of running a campaign to close schools.

How can teachers argue for safer working conditions when they are either ignored or misrepresented?

But it's only one teaching union calling for closures

The biggest one, is that correct?

the second biggest union is calling for safe working conditions and for some reason aren't getting the press traction.

Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why. Obviously demanding closures gets more press attention and the NEU absolutely knew this when they chose to shift the debate away from safety measures.

The thing is, calling for school closures during a national lockdown isn't a silly or outrageous thing to be doing. The lockdown will be less effective because schools remain open and there will be many parties interested in that point of view.

The usual complaint about school closures is that people are demanding that schools are closed in general (although I've not really seen this, I've seen plenty claim that others are demanding this). That is, IMO, a different kettle of fish to calling for school closures during this lockdown.

Conflating the two calls is deliberate on the part of some, I feel.

Christ the bs I read on MN about teachers.

We don't want schools closed. We want them open. Except the lack of basic safety is putting schools at risk of closure because lots of teachers are having to self isolate and classes are packed / poorly ventilated/ full of secondary pupils not in masks.

The thing is, calling for school closures during a national lockdown isn't a silly or outrageous thing to be doing.

Calling for schools to close for four weeks and then go to part time is not something the government or parents are likely to be able to support. For all the many reasons, already widely debated on these threads.

So calling for measures of that magnitude seems unlikely to get anyone anywhere, while distracting from the safety measures that should be being fought for.

We don't want schools closed. We want them open.

That is contrary to the NEU’s position, so you can hardly be surprised if that’s what people take out of the situation.

But schools aren't 'open'. Hundreds of thousands of kids missing out on being in school because of shocking mismanagement of the situation by the government isn't 'open'.

Something needs to change. The NEU position on keeping schools open is to shut them during national lockdown to effectively bring down infection rates, then move to a part time model. This, in their opinion, will provide a better and safer education than the current, disastrous situation.

If you are arguing against the NEU position, you should really specify whether you are happy with hundreds of thousands of kids out of school on a random and chaotic basis, or whether you would prefer different action to be taken to address this (and what action would that be?).

I think teachers should be brave. The vocal teachers’ union calling to shut down schools are in the wrong here. The needs of children are paramount. This is an opportunity for the teaching profession to rise to the challenges that they face. At the moment all of the complaints seem cowardly.

It’s far from a perfect situation, but that doesn’t mean four week closures and part time schooling afterwards are in any sense justified. Plenty of areas have low rates and limited closures.

The ROI are lowering their rates under lockdown very successfully, with schools still open. The data is very convincing.

covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

The only major difference there is masks in secondary. So focus on masks in secondary.

but that doesn’t mean four week closures and part time schooling afterwards are in any sense justified

It depends on what your priorities are, doesn't it?

So focus on masks in secondary.

Well no, let's focus on better mitigation measures in general. Masks only form part of that. Ventilation is another big one, as is testing.

The government released ONS data saying 'teachers no more likely to catch covid than other essential workers'. I went and read the actual data. They compared teacher infections to healthcare and care home workers and found that teachers had roughly the same amount (actually very slightly more). A more accurate headline based on the data would therefore be 'teachers at as much risk as healthcare workers'.
It's the constant propaganda that 'schools are safe' that is dangerous. If they admitted schools are a similar level of risk as healthcare, as their own data shows, and moved ECV and CV staff online - as the NHS has rightly moved vulnerable staff to telephone appointments wherever possible and minimum patient facing at least - then we might have half a chance of getting through the pandemic without driving droves of teachers out the profession. It's the absolute lack of regard for our safety and refusal to acknowledge it. It should be a national scandal that they are presenting the data in such a misleading way so as to keep CV pupils and staff in schools.