AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

@LittleMG You also cannot social distance from a patient you are washing, dressing, feeding, giving medication too. Our unwell patients do not wear masks. We have no protection from them - only in Icu do they have the "full ppe" most people seem to think we have. Can we please stop acting as if teachers are in some special high risk category that noone else is in?!

"It’s a cheap option."
Apparently not cheap enough to supply all teachers with a laptop in order to provide the remote learning. Not to mention the children from homes in financial hardship.

You think teachers can be replaced by computers

LittleMG has not said this, so stop making things up.

I completely reject that and worry that if we accept it it’ll be our future

It will never happen, one thing this pandemic has taught us is that face-to-face teaching is best, in the sense of the preferred mode.

This is the logical outcome if you think an online approach is equivalent to school

LittleMG has not said this.

Can we please stop acting as if teachers are in some special high risk category that noone else is in?

No teacher on MN has said this. Ever.

@echt A lot of teachers are saying this actually. How many people have said "tell me one other job where you have exposure to multiple people in a closed room with no mask". So many people have pointed out there are LOTS of other jobs like this but people keep parroting this out. You are not special.

We all agree it's scary and not ok but there are lots of us in this same situation. Please have some solidarity with us instead of implying it's worse for you somehow.

Echt I've read lots of posts from teachers about their high risks in school etc and that they are the only profession with no ppe and no social distancing . Lots and lots of posts .

Often the jobs pointed out are not the same though at all, as there is so much misinformation about what happens in schools - many still believing pupils are SD for example.

@MistressIggi I agree, but plenty of people have pointed out there are other jobs with no masks and no social distancing.
Nursery staff.
Healthcare professionals.
Carers.
Prison staff.

Yes, it's not a long list.
Yes, this feels like an unacceptable risk.
It feels that way to all of us too.

We are only asking you acknowledge teaching is not alone in this and stand in solidarity with us rather than acting as if the risks are yours alone.

@echt

Can we please stop acting as if teachers are in some special high risk category that noone else is in?

No teacher on MN has said this. Ever.

Go and read the currently running thread in Covid topic about PPE.

^I think you are not considering this in the collective sense.

There are over 500,000 full time teachers in the UK.
Most will be aged 22-60, so won't include the most elderly people who are most at risk from coronavirus.
Most people aged 22-60 who get coronavirus will catch it mildly or even asymptomatically. Few will require hospitalization.

What the government is weighing up is the relative risks. A very small proportion of teachers will get coronavirus more seriously. Not that many, relatively.

The comparative long term societal and economic impact of shutting secondary schools and attempting some crap blended learning etc (we tried this already remember) is considered collectively worse than the risk to the whole teaching population as a whole.^

To clarify my earlier post - age is not the only factor indicating vulnerability but it's the most important. However even allowing for other vulnerabilities, people collectively aged 22-60 are not likely to get Covid severely. Thus the government is weighing up the low risk to teachers (even with zero ppe) vs what they consider to be the higher risk long term of neglecting education.

The whole thing makes no sense to me.

Confirmed cases at friend's school. The child is in year 10. The members of that child's bubble (i.e. class) at school told to self isolate and join lessons online from home. They also mentioned anyone else in the same year group who gets the same bus to school, but not kids on the bus who are in different year groups.

Brothers and sisters of those told to isolate, still to go to school.

So if spread from the confirmed case to members in their class, will get passed to brothers and sisters and then sent back into the school to spread in different class groups. And if spread on the bus to a child in another year group, being spread in different class groups further.

Just half assed and pointless.

I think it would be helpful if people made it clear whether they are talking about serious cases or mild/asymptomatic cases.

People don't get it. Look at this on a population level, statistically, and suddenly you will realise the level of risk you are facing is not actually that high. You face comparable levels of risk in many other things you do in daily life, but because this risk is new, you haven't learned to process it yet.

Most will be aged 22-60, so won't include the most elderly people who are most at risk from coronavirus

This ignores all the other factors unrelated to age which make people vulnerable.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

You should read the thread on the Coronavirus board for long Covid sufferers. It isn't life threatening but it's nevertheless debilitating. It has a knock-on effect on their families, too, as I'm finding out.

I've also joined a Facebook support group for long Covid sufferers.

There are a lot of us and most of us are young and still working age, as well as having DC who are dependent on us.

Please don't be dismissive of this. You should also be aware that there's no way of knowing who is at risk of going through it yourself.

I guess I'm not young, at 51, but I'm not old either. Others really are genuinely young and previously of good health.

@Witchcraftandhokum

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

I can absolutely understand your feelings, and I don't think you are unreasonable to feel the way you do. Ds2 is a secondary school teacher, and I worry a lot about him - his older brother is able to work from home most of the time, and in a safe, socially distanced office when he has to go in, and his younger brother is in his last year of Uni, living in a flat with his girlfriend, doing all his study online, and doing almost no socialising - but there is no way for ds2 to ensure his safety from Covid.

Sadly, I can't see an obvious or easily achievable answer to this problem - children need education, and they need the social aspect of school for their mental health, but I don't see a way to achieve this and to keep school staff as safe as they should be. I wish I had an answer.

You should also be aware that there's no way of knowing who is at risk of going through it yourself.

You misunderstand. I am not suggesting considering individual risk or how unpleasant long Covid might be for the statistically small proportion of people impacted severely or impacted long term. It is still, on a population, a very small proportion of cases that will result in severe Covid or long Covid.

The overlying point here is no matter how you spin, ON A POPULATION LEVEL,
most people will get Covid mildly. The government cannot focus on how shit it might be for the small percentage who are more badly affected. They need to government has to weigh up what is best for the population as a whole. Even though that means a small proportion of unlucky people will be more severely impacted than others.

@roxyfoxy89, then wear a mask. Latest government advise says you can wear a mask if you want to.

My DS's school has emailed a newsletter staying all students must wear a mask all day unless has medical exemption letter. In corridors they must wear a mask and a vizor. He is at a special secondary school and his school seem to have no problems with pupils behaviour with mask wearing. They are teaching them safety first.

@littleMG, that might be the case with some teachers but not all. I have a foster son at a special school. He has a social worker and HSC plan. He is therefore classed as a vulnerable child. He could not go to school during first lockdown. Three teachers worked each day on a rota system so each teacher had to go to school about one day every three weeks. We later found out only 2 children were allowed to go to school. So 3 teachers 2 pupils and we were told teachers could not teach children in school omlyond them. The 2 that went played all day. My foster son nor any child at his school got even one single online lesson. A few worksheets printed off internet were sent home with no differentiation. In 4 months he got 2 pages of stupidly easy maths he could do in his head and similar to work he did three years prior. I sent in a lot of work to show what he was learning. Nothing was marked or feedback given. What do you suppose Maths teacher was doing everyday? I just want you to recognise not all teachers were working in schools or providing home learning or marking work. It is precisely because the quality of teaching or lack of it was so variable between schools that we need to keep kids in school. If all teachers had taught children via Teams or Zoom and marked work then many parents would be more supportive of children staying home. I know some teachers worked hard but many did virtually nothing for 4 months.

@Arundelclassrom

We all understand that teachers are scared and we have complete sympathy with you. What we don't appreciate is you making out you are in some special category of risk worse than all of us. You aren't. We work with actual covid patients. They don't wear masks! They cough on us! Staff on general wards do not have "full ppe" - we have your basic mask from a supermarket. Yes, it's not good enough. Please have some respect for us and for what we do!

I don't think that any teacher thinks they're more hard done by than people actually treating people with Covid.

You will not get any sympathy out of me frontline NHS staff that has worked through this and getting on with it.

@Ireolu

You will not get any sympathy out of me frontline NHS staff that has worked through this and getting on with it.

Are you sure you're in the right profession? I should have thought that empathy towards other human beings was a pre-requisite for frontline nhs.

And if you have children, did they not benefit from teachers working throughout lockdown for Key Workers' children to attend school?

@Ireolu

You will not get any sympathy out of me frontline NHS staff that has worked through this and getting on with it.

Wow