To say NHS MH help is a joke?

[Pumpertrumper]

I sought MH help during my pregnancy. I was passed around a lot, did multiple ‘assessments’ having the same conversation over and over.

I was then assigned a psychiatrist (hurrah) but the apts were inconsistent. She agreed I needed weekly sessions but was frequently on holiday, dealing with personal issues or in training. I was going 2-3 weeks at a time with nothing! Then lockdown hit.

I struggled having given birth and gone into lockdown. I really needed consistency but my psychologist was even flakier than before despite WFH. So I got exasperated and told her exactly how I felt. She was apologetic and agreed it was not helping or supporting me, if anything it was making me worse. So she suggested I move to CBT.

I agreed. It took a couple of months for CBT to start but the first few weeks went well. I felt there was some improvement BUT after week 3 the therapist announced she had substantial annual leave/training coming up so I would have to miss those sessions. So far I’ve missed 3 sessions and will miss another 2 over coming weeks. It’s so counter productive. Makes the whole thing disjointed and spend half the session recapping where we left off!

Yes everyone deserves annual leave and needs training but surely missing 5 sessions of a 12 session course is ridiculous. Surely this is a job in which you know consistency is important.

A friend of mine recently had private CBT and not a single session was ever missed or cancelled.

I’ve now decided I’m just going to cancel the CBT and give up.

@Googon

Hi, so I’m an NHS consultant. Are you equating me to an SS officer?

I dislike the NHS because it's run by people who usually have no experience of life outside the NHS and think that normal people behave like them. It is, essentially, a state within a state rather in the way the SS were in Nazi Germany. Some may find that comparison offensive and ask why I would compare the behaviour of our health service to an institution that was responsible for mass murder.

What are you on about?

Surely people that work for the NHS also use the NHS?!

The comparisons to SS officers are highly offensive

Googon as long as you have capacity and don't meet the bar for a mental health section then you are welcome to decline support from the NHS.

The idea that NHS staff are some sort of different species with malicious intent is quite bizarre though.

[quote PaddyF0dder]@Googon

Hi, so I’m an NHS consultant. Are you equating me to an SS officer?[/quote]
That depends entirely on your behaviour. You may be entirely committed to good quality patient care and doing the best you can. If so then props to you; not all of your colleagues are like you. As a consultant you'll be aware of the recent GMC research that identify five toxic behaviours on the part of doctors that can seriously affect patient care. In the worst case scenario these can lead to unnecessary death. Factor in the serious lack of accountability displayed by many NHS organisations and the egregious way it deals with whistle-blowers and what we're left with is a culture where it's more acceptable to cause death than it is to rock the boat.

@oneglassandpuzzled

I dislike the NHS because it's run by people who usually have no experience of life outside the NHS and think that normal people behave like them. It is, essentially, a state within a state rather in the way the SS were in Nazi Germany. Some may find that comparison offensive and ask why I would compare the behaviour of our health service to an institution that was responsible for mass murder.

What are you on about?

In what sense?

@Stompythedinosaur

Googon as long as you have capacity and don't meet the bar for a mental health section then you are welcome to decline support from the NHS.

The idea that NHS staff are some sort of different species with malicious intent is quite bizarre though.

You don't know the half of it. Trust me, there's a lot more informing my attitude than the MH thing.

It's good if you're the extreme end of the scale.

If you're a huge risk you'll have people comming to your house daily to being your pills for that day etc but that level is hopefully dropped off quickly as you improve.

But if you're generic middle class "oh I'm a bit down" all your friends say "oh gp quick" yeah you're going to be bumped constantly because they dont really have the staff to cover emergencies and "maintenance" care

The NHS hasn't had a final salary pension scheme for a while now.

"You don't know the half of it. Trust me, there's a lot more informing my attitude than the MH thing."

The daily mail?

Is the NHS woefully underfunded? Yes.

But you have to take responsibility for your own health too.

So because you’re expecting to miss another 2 sessions, making it 7/12 session that you could have - you’re just going to cancel.

Why?

CBT isn’t like a course of antibiotics that you have to finish. You could have benefit from the remaining sessions - yet you’re choosing not to. Why? So what if you spend time recapping? Recapping is good. (though I understand it’s frustrating when it’s due to missed sessions! But the act of recapping is still worthwhile)

You want the NHS to deliver your treatment... and they should. Yet you’re choosing to quit and not take what you could have.

Complain all you like about the provision - but don’t cut your nose off to spite your face 🤷🏻‍♀️

Nope. Real world experience.

@BullshitVivienne

The NHS hasn't had a final salary pension scheme for a while now.

There's plenty of people still on the pre 2015 scheme though eh? Also, the Career Average thing is still a lot more advantageous than the sort of stakeholder pension that most other people are stuck with.

I can understand Googon's point, even if phrased in an extreme way. I've met some excellent, conscientious clinicians, but sadly the ones that stay in our minds are the ones who absolutely should not be involved in patient care.

I had a psychiatrist actively block me getting any help for four years. In that time he became clinical director, any attempt to complain or get a second opinion was blocked by him. In fact complaints were used by him to demonstrate my 'antisocial behaviour'! Things only changed when my GP became involved and insisted on me seeing a different psychiatrist. When I saw the new psychiatrist, my presentation was so different to that written about in my notes that she asked for an audit trail to check they'd not been mixed with someone else's. They hadn't, he'd just been lying. He claimed I had refused help, I'd not turned up for non existent appointments, I'd abused medication. None of which were true.

I don't know why this man had taken against me, but I'm certain I'm not the only one. He's managed to climb to a position of great power, despite colleagues being aware of how he mistreats vulnerable people.

In my area MH services are very pushed as there are many people with MH illness caused by / exacerbated by drug problems plus many are homeless.
I've been under the local community mental health team since 2008.
My treatment has been variable but since I've I've been seeing my current psychiatrist since 2013 I can honestly say he is brilliant, very caring, all his patients seem to like him.
I have appointments every 3 months.

I have Schizoaffective disorder & take high does of anti psychotics & anti depressants plus an anti histamine for when I get anxious.
A nurse at the cmht checked my bloods recently as I take so many meds & liaises with my gp.
My psychiatrist chose an anti psychotic that has least side effects.
I do get breakthrough psychotic symptoms when I'm stressed or tired & I'm able to talk to a psychiatric nurse at any time.

I think that services have definitely improved in the last few years here.
The cmht offer 'Recovery' courses, plus I have an Occupational Therapist linked to the team who helps me stay in part time work.

Psychology treatment can be difficult to access as the psychologists have to agree that you can benefit from it.
I'm waiting for psychology to help me cope with the paranoia I do suffer from.

I think you have been unlucky. Keep going! Can always ask to change therapists.

Yeah I think unless you have a complex and serious mental health condition and have extensive experience of ill-equipped and sometimes (not always!) downright hostile MH services Googan's posts can seem 'mad'.

Unfortunately the system can be utterly dystopian and often retraumatizing and I would advise people to stay away from the NHS for mental health care (unless their conditions are less complex, serious and enduring). That is only based on my own extensive experience though over 20 years......

I am really worried about the constantly trotted out line that people need to 'take responsibility for their health'. Now, there is some truth to this to an extent but if we are talking about enduring serious mental health conditions then this is akin to saying that people should take responsibility for their own infection/heart attack/stroke. It displays a gross misunderstanding of mental health problems and is quite dangerous. I hope this ignorance dies out as understanding is increased.

Yanbu.
I gave up.
When I was younger you could get weekly counselling sessions, for months, until you were better. Now it seems to be medication and a long wait for sticking plaster CBT.

It is just another area where the country is divided between rich and poor.

I waited 2 years for my psychotherapy. I attended every session and was making great progress. But there are limited sessions and it ended at a crisis point in my life.

I was left knowingly suicidal to seek help from a charity at a time when I wasn't fit to leave the house without ending up on the train platform every time I did so.

The psychotherapist was eager for more treatment as were adult social services, but the bean counters said no, I have had my lifetime provision.

I am seeing a charity for £20 per session, but I have yet to develop the relationship of trust i had with my previous therapist. It took me 2 years to grieve her and be able to move on.

MH issues are neglected by successive governments, if they did this with cancer treatment there would be an uproar.

@Googon

So there’s good people in the SS?

Yep, NHS has been completely useless for my DH.

My DH had such severe OCD/anxiety that he was confined to his room. He wouldn’t go to the toilet for over 48 hours as it would take so long to wash his hands. He avoided eating and drinking to avoid going to the toilet. Obviously this meant he was tired, weak, couldn’t think straight and all this culminated in anger.

I begged the GPs to visit him at home and they wouldn’t. One of DH’s fears was getting ill so he wouldn’t step foot in the GP. That’s even if he would have been able to get there for an appointment - which he couldn’t as if he started getting ready in the morning it would take him until at least 6pm to be ready.

I tried the ‘First Response’ team and they agreed he sounded severely ill. I thought they would give him a home visit, but no, they gave him an appointment for 8 weeks later. It was in an office type building so DH agreed to go.

It took a lot of effort and difficulty to get DH there and I finally thought this would be the start of some treatment. Long story short - as he hadn’t attempted suicide and had already had some private therapy before, he was signed off.

My DH is now much better, but it’s taken years of private therapy. He’s lucky that I was able to find the money somehow (selling things, asking relatives for help, our DC only having basic presents, clothes, food). I was also able to help him find therapists who could see him using Skype and all the other admin/help he needed. What happens to people who don’t have the resources or anyone to help them?

It’s so counterproductive too. My DH was a professional earning a good salary and paying tax. If he’d got the right help at the right time he might not have got in such a bad state and would be back to work by now.

I dislike the NHS because it's run by people who usually have no experience of life outside the NHS and think that normal people behave like them

Do you think people who work for the NHS really have no life experience? Most of my NHS colleagues are well travelled, have families, do all the things ‘normal’ people do. And yes NHS staff get ill too. Many MH nurses go into the profession because they have had MH issues themselves and want to help others! And many have had other careers before going into healthcare.

Why do you think NHS staff are so different to other humans?

It's an absolute joke. The bottom line is if you want fast, decent, consistent help you have to find a way to pay.