Can someone please explain the “deaths WITH CV19” and why it’s not deaths “OF” CV19

[lentilcurl]

I can’t get my head round why if someone tests positive and then dies within 28 days of that test they are counted as a death even though they may have died of something completely unrelated? For example a car accident? The car accident has killed them not CV19?

Apologies if it’s really obvious. I struggle to get my head round the whole thing...

I asked this AGES ago...
It's just as confusing now .

My husband has heart failure and cancer, and if he got Covid, it would probably hasten his death from heart failure. In that case it should be on the certificate even if Covid wasn't the actual main cause, and I would then think it should be Chronic heart failure with Covid.

It's just how deaths are recorded. Just like you die of "blunt force impact" and not "of a car crash".

The cause of death will be something like heart or lung failure or a blood clot of something, caused by covid. Which is why it has to be "with" since no death will ever be recorded as "of".

There might be a tiny number of deaths accidentally included, but that will be balanced by the ones who still die of covid after 28 days as it can take a while to die of complications.

When comparing total deaths to the average excess deaths per year it seems covid is being more under reported than over. I doubt the numbers are hugely inaccurate because of the with/of distinction.

Ectopic pregnancy I agree Covid probably not contributing

Inherited heart condition. Yes getting COVID could tip the person over into dying when they had managed with it before. I think it's right that's recorded as a Covid death. I find it extremely unlikely that it would have no effect.

Catching COVID in hospital when you went in for something else was very common last peak. Just because you caught it in hospital (ie you had something else wrong) doesn't mean it wasn't COVID that killed you. Hospital acquired infections of all kinds kill a lot of people. I knew someone (elderly) had dementia and went in with a broken arm, caught COVID and died. They obviously died of Covid and not the broken arm or the dementia which they would have survived.

I don’t think it’s that difficult really, it certainly shouldn’t be.

If the doctor, on the balance of probabilities, considers that covid caused or contributed to the death then it will be on the death certificate. It needn’t be the actual cause of death... just contributed to it.

If it’s on the death certificate then it’s recorded in the stats.

It’s similar to a lot of other things, someone has already mentioned HIV.

HIV and AIDS are never the actual cause of the death... it will be something like a pneumonia or a particular type of cancer which affects that part of the immune system. HIV infection is a contributor because it caused the damage to the immune system which led to the person suffering from pneumonia or that cancer which they died from. A healthy person who wasn’t HIV positive or had aids would not have contracted the pneumonia as a result and so wouldn’t have died.

What's happened where i work is patients coming in with an unrelated health issue and contracting Covid while an inpatient or they had it all along and its only picked up on routine testing as no symptoms. The main cause of death isn't Covid but its still listed on the death certificate. Im sure in some cases it did contribute and in others it didn't.

@lentilcurl

I can’t get my head round why if someone tests positive and then dies within 28 days of that test they are counted as a death even though they may have died of something completely unrelated? For example a car accident? The car accident has killed them not CV19?

Apologies if it’s really obvious. I struggle to get my head round the whole thing...

Maybe they were coughing and that's why they crashed

It depends my DM's said cause of death Covid19 and Obesity hypoventilation syndrome.
The Covid19 definitely took her she went downhill rapidly with fluid filled lungs.
She was overweight at 14.5 stone which didn't help her though at 69 was mobile with the weight.
She was on a Cpap at night for a few years.

I don't really understand death certificates. My grandma's says breast cancer. Pneumonia, the direct cause, was not listed as the reason

They are meant to have the main cause first then underlying factors
@Emmapeeler2 so your grandmother's really should have been 1) pneumonia 2) breast cancer

I'm not too keen on the stats only being those who die within 28 days though - my cousin was on a ventilator for nearly 4 weeks before dying - technically he died of kidney failure I believe - prior to covid he had no kidney problems. It would be wrong to say he didn't die of covid

@iolaus That is true. The severely sick patients usually get bad symptoms in week 2 and often spend weeks/months on ventilation if fit enough before their organs give up.
It can easily be week/months from infection to death.
I assume only elderly vulnerable cases would be over in 14 days anyone fit with severe symptoms with or without hospitalization seems to be ill for months.