If the young were dying we would have sorted this by now?

[Chaotic45]

To be clear I think I one of the few good things about Covid is that children and young people are mostly not affected.

However I feel that if they were, we would have had much more success with controlling the virus.

If more people had been genuinely concerned for themselves, and even worse for their children they would have followed the rules more closely.

The virus spreads via person to person contact- so by being in close proximity to an infected person and sharing of surfaces. So the roles should work, and they only don't because too many people don't follow them.

AIBU to think that if young people were dying more people would have reduced social contact and the infection rate would be more under control?

@feelingverylazytoday

Do people still not understand that it's about preventing the health system from collapse, not who dies? If/when the health service becomes overwhelmed people of all ages will start to die. Anyone who needs hospital care for any reason will be at risk.There won't be enough staff, beds, equipment, oxygen, drugs to go round.

Agree, because lockdown successfully averted this, people have stopped thinking about the real consequences of an uncontrolled spike and how much worse it would be had that occurred or if we let it happen now.

I don't think it would have been sorted, I don't think it will be sorted till there's an effective vaccine.

I think compliance with social distancing etc would have been far better though.

Another thing about the "selfish families continuing to do playdates and visit grandparents" narrative. Surely the grandparents also have an element of responsibility in all this? Unless the selfish young folk are leaping out at them unexpectedly.

AIBU to think that if young people were dying more people would have reduced social contact and the infection rate would be more under control?

YANBU.

I agree - I hear a lot of young people and their parents, justifying breaking the rules because "I won't get too ill from it."

No, but you may be the vector of transmission which will infect other people who will become quite ill.

Of course people would act differently if it was young people at risk, parents would want to protect their children so would comply to the rules. Not sure if it would make it any quicker finding a cure or treatment though? I believe what’s being done is the most that can be done, finding a vaccine takes time, trials take time.

Yes of course. There's a magic wand out there that would have been waved if more young people died. Simple.

Not all elderly people are saints, who sit at home knitting in rocking chairs.
Same as with all sectors of society, Some are right selfish bastards.
I had one (covid positive) 75yr old patient cough into her hands and wipe it on my arms as she took exception to me wearing PPE when I was trying to treat her.
Not confused, just selfish.
The neighbours (all elderly) are defying the rules a lot more than my 3 uni students who have had their lives ripped from under them to protect a group that they are not part of. They have done so without complaint and no thanks whatsoever, just complaints that they arent doing enough.

@EmeraldShamrock

Until there is a series of public information films showing naked people lying face down with an endotracheal tube and their eyes taped shut and Xrays showing completely consolidated lung fields, nothing much will change Why aren't they showing these things, we saw the coffins in Italy and China, bodies stacked in trucks in New York, mass grave digging in Brazil/Mexico. Apparently close to 60,000 lifes lost in the UK.

I have no idea why the true impact of this has not been hammered home to people via media. With AIDS/HIV it was on the TV every five minutes. They put photos of cancerous tongues and lungs on fag packets and yet with this there has been hardly any visual deterrents and we all know humans work best when they shut their eyes and see the worst case scenario in their heads.

I believe the govenment has been incredibly naive in the way they have dealt with this from the outset. People are going to push every boundary possible. It's human nature. They also see pubs opening etc. as a green light that all is well. If it had been promoted as a, 'go out if you absolutely must and don't give a shit if you catch it', type message, things would look different but people are often like sheep and if it looks like the powers that be are saying the risk has diminished, they will party! I have been isolating since the 23rd of March. Both of us are waiting for life changing surgery. Even if we weren't we would isolate until there is a vaccine or good treatment at the first signs. We are lucky that we can do this I know but if everybody that could self isolate, carried on doing so, this problem would be much smaller but they were given the impression by the government that the virus was less of a threat and they should eat out etc. Complete madness!
It's clear from TV footage that Boris had not the tiniest idea about how dangerous this was. The early daily updates were held in a packed room etc. Disease is part of my day job and I was bug eyed at Laura Kuenessberg and her ilk rubbing shoulders and asking questions. It's been handled as a joke.

Even BoJo catching it has not made him get slitty eyes over Dominic Cummings so what hope is there that your average Joe on the street will make changes.

Yes of course. There's a magic wand out there that would have been waved if more young people died. Simple

Well yes, if like OP you are suggesting that the magic wand is proper compliance rather than 'making own assessment' as justification to break the rules. And that waving it reduces, rather than completely removes, transmission

I’d like to think so but if people are selfish enough to break the law/guidelines knowing it can impact on others health then I don’t think they would suddenly have a change of heart.

It may have impacted on schools and the parents who insist they must remain open.

Not if MN were in charge as most say that the death of a 6 to is no worse than the death of a 90 yo.

Which I find odd but it is what it is. Odd especially on a parenting site I suppose where the children being discussed aren't generally hypothetical.

(globally) 300,000 children under 5 die every year from Malaria.
Another 100,000 people die of malaria at other ages.

If the world threw £10 trillion more at that problem in 2020-21, I wonder if it could be 'sorted'. But never been enough interest in sorting it. Because they are poor kids not oldies in rich countries? Just a thought.

@Livelovebehappy

I would like them to tell us the age ranges of the daily deaths. 247 deaths - how many of these are for example under 75? If it’s found 99.9% are in the elderly bracket, we have to maybe ensure our elderly self isolate pending a vaccine being introduced. Organise food parcel deliveries for them, organise a care package in their homes, and the rest of us just get back to normal living. We have to find some way of living alongside covid.

The average age of a Covid death is 82. And the number of excess deaths is in line with the level at the same time last year. History will see this as the biggest over reaction ever, it’s mass hysteria.

That pesky Bill Gates is throwing mega bucks at malaria.

But the tinfoil wearers blame him for Covid, do they not?

What gets chatted about on SM often doesn't match RL

@Serin

Not all elderly people are saints, who sit at home knitting in rocking chairs. Same as with all sectors of society, Some are right selfish bastards. I had one (covid positive) 75yr old patient cough into her hands and wipe it on my arms as she took exception to me wearing PPE when I was trying to treat her. Not confused, just selfish. The neighbours (all elderly) are defying the rules a lot more than my 3 uni students who have had their lives ripped from under them to protect a group that they are not part of. They have done so without complaint and no thanks whatsoever, just complaints that they arent doing enough.

Agreed - the worst offenders for rule breaking I've seen are retired people (neighbours and family) who take great umbrage to being told what they can and can't do as they're used to doing whatever they want. The feeling is that we have to do what the rules say to protect them but they will carry on with life as normal if they please. I work with students and they've been relative angels by comparison.

Not if MN were in charge as most say that the death of a 6 to is no worse than the death of a 90 yo

1. MN is not a hive.
2. MNHQ is in charge
3. I don't know what "most" say. Nor do you.

The people I know who are breaking the rules the most are all over 70.

Not sure they would be doing it any differently if the young were more affected. Maybe. They all have gc.

And the number of excess deaths is in line with the level at the same time last year

What's your cut off when asserting this? It's true that excess deaths have been low since early June, so the year on year comparison with those months would look 'in line'

But that's not the whole truth, is it? Because spring isn't 'the same time' of year, and that is when Covid-related excess deaths occurred.

Its never been about rates of dying , its rates of hospitilisation.

Its the effect of hospital services being overwhelmed.
During the last wave staff from theatres/clinics/wards were conscripted onto ICU with about 1 to 2 weeks training.
This has 2 impacts

1. it means your wards,clinics and theatres cant function because you have hardly any staff and
2. If youre in ICU youre being looked after by someone with little or no experience and due to the nature of ICU this in itself has dangers.

Childrens trainee ICU doctors (not junior but the ones 5 to 6 years post qualification ) have already been told that if they need to expand adult ICU capacity again that they will be moved there. This leaves childrens services understaffed.

The nightingale hospitals have no staff. where do people think all these nurses and doctors will come from given that there are 40,000 nurse vacancies going into this pandemic and the staff who worked there arses off last time are less inclined to do so this time round. I know a few nurses who have taken early retirement following this pandemic and more who are considering it. Thats a hell of a lot of experienced staff you are going to lose.

Children dont tend to get as sick from covid, but they can get post viral inflammatory illnesses which can make them very sick and in hospital. we saw quite a few after the last wave
Also its been noted that we have had quite a big increase in the number of kids presenting with brand new diabetes type 1 . It cant be pinned to the virus but it certainly was a notable increase. thats a lot of new diabetics who are going to spend their lives on insulin with all the associated complications that come with type 1 diabetes.

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/201473/covid-19-linked-increase-type-diabetes-children/

The people I know who are breaking the rules the most are all over 70

That is anecdote, not evidence. It's perfectly clear that rule-breaking is happening amongst all age groups.

And the autumn rise in cases had been in those aged 20-60 (source, Imperial College REACT-1 survey) and is only just beginning to spill out into the older more vulnerable age groups. This is strongly suggestive of the over-60s not being the demographic whose social behaviour is driving this wave.

What is worrying is how full hospitals already are - before spread has reached the more vulnerable and before the usual season for other winter viruses

the people who getting long term conditions & those in hospital with serious illness but survive are not all over 80. From what has previously been stated by the NHS many are well under 60
please stop saying that its only people over the age of 80 who die/ are at risk being affected - just because people under that age are surviving doesn't mean no one younger is not at severe risk of life changing side effects & disabilities whether they last months or for life.

AIBU to think that if young people were dying more people would have reduced social contact and the infection rate would be more under control?

YABU because thr selfish "I'm not following these rules! It's a police state! Loss of liberty!" arses would still be selfish arses.

@reesewithoutaspoon that is serious about type 1 diabetes - this also means the dc have life long decreased immunity to other diseases

The virus spreads via person to person contact- so by being in close proximity to an infected person and sharing of surfaces. So the rules should work, and they only don't because too many people don't follow them

The rules are : Go to work, use public transport, go to school, Uni, the pub, cafe & restaurant and the shops too.
How can you do any of this without being close to others and touching a myriad of different surfaces?

Mitigation is wear a flimsy badly fitted mask and use sanitizer.

Its hardly surprising CV infections are out of control.

This is my first post so I'm a little nervous. I've recently been very ill and I'm on a slow recovery now. I'm still mentally and physically exhausted.
My issue is that I have two daughters aged 14 and 17. While I've been u well they haven't helped in the house at all. My husband works very long hours and has been amazing at looking after me. But my girls haven't lifted a finger. Today is my first wobbly day out of bed and I can't believe how messy and dirty my house is. I feel I've created my very own lazy monsters. They don't even ask how I'm feeling or if I need anything, a cup of tea would be nice 😔 How can I get them to wake up and see how much I need their help.? I feel very low and I still can't think clearly. So any helpful suggestions would be amazing. Thank you for taking the time to read this.