Row in the petrol station

[BishBashBosch]

After filling my car, at the counter, I was told the price and put down my credit card on the counter. They had a portable card reader but it was facing the cashier.

The cashier puts my card in to the reader, presses some buttons, and hands me the reader with it on the 'enter pin' screen. There wasn't an amount visible.

I immediately think that's a bit odd because I should put the card in myself (particularly now), and I don't know what messages he saw when he was pressing buttons. I felt a gut instinct something wasn't right.

I say to the guy "I'm going to take my card out and start again".

The guy gets very annoyed with me. I forget exactly what he said. He took back the machine and asked for my card. I said I wanted to put the card in myself.

It turned into a standoff, him saying "just give me the card", me refusing to. Eventually he gave in and gave me the machine and I did it the way I wanted, but with him grumbling and tutting me the whole time. There was a screen asking if the amount was correct, I don't know what would have happened if I'd pressed 'no'.

Was I being unreasonable? Is there a scam where they change the amount and the customer doesn't see when they enter their PIN?

It was a national chain petrol station.

YANBU. I had a fairly new card, barely used, one evening I used to to pay at a petrol station of a national supermarket. The next morning my card was blocked due to a number of fraudulent transactions on it. I don't think it was a coincidence.

It doesnt take too much to set up a lucrative fraud if you have the criminal intent and the front to do it.

Back in the olden days I was cashier for a group if tyre and exhaust places. The supervisor was always more worried when there was too much cash rather than too little.

Running a credit card fraud takes away that risk. All you need is to have the brass neck to do it. Pick your customers and dont take too much each time. You could be onto a steady tidy little tax free earner. By the time the customer sees their statement they will have forgotten how much they spent on fuel on any given day.

@Lanaa

National chain petrol stations don't have PDQ systems that let employees steal. You were rude to this man.

THIS a thousand times over. There physically is no way for an employee to put in a “different” amount and steal from you.

there’s plenty of times a card machine doesn’t show the amount, especially in the days of contactless.

I can't think of any that I've seen.

There physically is no way for an employee to put in a “different” amount and steal from you.

Apart from, as someone has said, adding an extra item and keeping it.

Regardless, it is stupid to put your PIN in without checking the amount.

You can also overcharge someone (without them realising) and refund the money back on to a different card.

No you can't.

THIS a thousand times over. There physically is no way for an employee to put in a “different” amount and steal from you.

Maybe not, but employees CAN scan extra items and charge you for them. If you don't know the amount you've paid, you'll have no idea what's happened until you check your statement a few days later. By that time, it's probably too late to prove anything untoward happened.

How are you going to prove you didn't buy that bottle of alcohol or packet or cigarettes? After all, the PDQ will say you verified the purchase with your PIN.

Do you often get paranoid or was there something else going on to make you feel like this was odd?

What a patronising remark by a pp.

Banks specifically advise now that you shouldn't let your card out of your sight. And petrol stations are well known for being hotspots for card fraud. OP did the right thing and the annoyance she apparently caused suggests that she was spot-on in her concerns imo.

PlanDeRaccordement all the cashier needs to do is scan through something else which they later sell for cash. 'Sorry, the till isnt giving receipts' and the customer goes on their way, little knowing that they have just paid for cigarettes/alcohol/oil which can be readily sold for cash.

As far as I’m aware the guidance is that the customer should put the card in themselves.

All those saying a national chain wouldn’t scam people....

A couple of years ago our credit card was stopped by the bank when an attempt to use it in USA was made. They sent us a new card, new number etc, we used it to buy fuel in a NATIONAL CHAIN. Two days later the “card” was used again outside the U.K. and the bank stopped it again. The fraud dept who called DH were thrilled that it had only been used once in the one place as this helped provide the evidence to a suspected cloning gang! It then hit the local news a short time later .. garage raided, illegal workers, card cloning etc. BIG national chain.... turns out they’re franchises......

@DGRossetti

You can also overcharge someone (without them realising) and refund the money back on to a different card.

No you can't.

You certainly could where I used to work. What's to stop people?

We had a manual PDQ machine - the cashier was responsible for keying in the correct amount before handing the machine to the customer. If the wrong amount was inputted by accident and the customer failed to notice, it wouldn't cause a problem on the till until the end of the day when it would show as a discrepancy.

What would stop someone overcharging by, say, £20 and refunding that money back onto a different card before cashing up? The till would still balance and not everywhere has a policy of "refunds must go back onto the same card".

When I worked in a shop as a student (so approx 15 years ago) we were told we were not allowed to handle the customers cards ourselves, that the customer should always insert the card. I would find it weird if a shop assistant handled my card. Let alone now with covid.

I find petrol stations seem to attract the not as polite assistants.
I would have said, may I see the amount to confirm please? Then the ball was in his court to show you.
As an ex-shop assistant, I would never have an issue showing a customer the amount to show it's correct, and I have had an instance in a restaurant where that bit was skipped and I said, politely, I didn't check the amount, can we start again please. Turned out the girl holding it was indeed pulling a fast one and had decided on her own tip which was way over the realms of what I would've tipped her.
I would raise it with the company, he should not be tutting at customers however hacked off he is.

What would stop someone overcharging by, say, £20 and refunding that money back onto a different card before cashing up? The till would still balance and not everywhere has a policy of "refunds must go back onto the same card".

To add to this, you could also refund back onto a gift card and sell the gift card on for cash if you wanted to. As long as the till balanced eat day, management never investigated why!

Someone who worked in banking fraud advised that he never used a card for purchasing fuel inside the M25 - due to the high prevalence of associated card crime

I think you were right to follow your gut instinct.
My sister has had her card cloned twice, both at petrol stations (national ones)

I dont know why you didn’t just say “sorry I can’t see the amount, can we start again” ans been nice about it.

This happened to my DH a few weeks ago, the cashier added a chocolate bar to his petrol. My DH spotted it, and made the cashier start the transaction again. If you don't check the amount you don't know what you are being charged for.

Is paying with your card at the pump not an option in the UK?

I work in a petrol station and our card machines don't let you change the amount. The amount on the till is what you pay.

Yanbu. I think a supermarket would be less likely, but aren't lots of the BP stations franchises? So the owner/manager coulf be fraudulently overcharging?

@Lanaa

National chain petrol stations don't have PDQ systems that let employees steal. You were rude to this man.

National chain petrol stations are often franchises and a local one to me did exactly this years ago to multiple customers and cloned cards. Was in the papers.

Some places in the UK have pay at pump machines (often supermarkets) but a lot of the chains and little independents don't. (And don't get me started on Morrisons ones that always seem to have problems printing receipts....)

The rule is to never enter your PIN before checking the amount, so YANBU.
On a similar note I get extremely annoyed from cashiers who want to take your phone from your hand when they need to scan a bar code (parcel collection for ex). Considering I put my phone against my face when I call someone I'd rather not have some stranger touch it! I am perfectly able to hold it still while they scan it.

I think you were correct and reasonable.