To ask if you are happy with the protection levels at school?

[MissMissICantDoThis]

I am a teacher so feel that I have some insight into what is going on in schools and I am feeling increasingly worried about the 'second wave'.

We have guidelines at our school and they mainly protect us adults. In reality, I couldn't do my job without breaking the guidelines and putting myself at risk. I accept this and felt that I accepted the risk in general. In my circle it is generally 'brave face and no complaining' attitude so I do not hear anyone talking about it.

I have mixed feelings for my own children. My son seems genuinely scared for the adults in the family and I am doing my best to support this.

I do not think that they will close schools again. The damage that the last lockdown did is evident. However, I am increasingly in favour of closing them again for a circuit breaker at least. The scientific evidence is so mixed that I do not know what to believe and wonder if the government are purposely being vague to avoid lockdown. Death rates are inevitably down compared to the first wave now that they only count deaths within 28 days yet they announced that it can take several weeks for someone to become critically ill.

My friend has a worried child too and she has said that if necessary, she will take her child out and face the fine. Is anyone else's child really worried? How do you feel about this?

I am genuinely prepared to accept that I am on half term and have spent more time watching the news than I normally would. Am I allowing myself to be scaremongered?

in our small (2 form entry) primary school, the only teacher who comes in closer contact with parents is the headmistress who doesn’t teach- she opens car doors and guides children who arrive on foot through the gate. no other teacher comes closer than 2m to parents (everything is done via zoom and email).
No parents allowed on site.
All parents at drop off and the headmistress wear masks.
Only class teachers and class TAs (so 2-3 adults per class) come close to children- everyone who wants can wear a mask. windows and doors are open for ventilation.
Children are in form bubbles that don’t mix (not even at breakfast/after school club). most classrooms have their own access to outside, so corridors aren’t used.
Assemblies are via zoom in classroom.
Very good provision for children self isolating (no cases to date), so parents don’t feel pressured to send kids in
its as safe as it can be.

"That’s your opinion but considering you have no idea at all how my daughters school is run then You have no idea"

Perhaps not, but we do have access to government guidance. No other business in the country ( even th NHS) seems to be able to manage to keep everyone safe with the same number of people in the same size building for the same amount of time doing the same amount of work.

If making somewhere truly covid secure was possibly by good running of the organisation and the occasional use of masks and sanitiser we wouldn't need a lockdown and suffer r such an economic impact would we?

I would have said the same about my school after the first few weeks but it turns out the procedures hadn't been stress tested by multiple cases in the school and once it was cases exploded.

@MissMissICantDoThis

** So, anyone who is unhappy with measures in primary schools, have you any evidence of transmission? I am not aware that this is of concern - therefore measures appear to be proportionate.**

The evidence is unknown. If the bubble closes down, you would never know of other children tested positive unless you can tell me that you know every single child. Schools will not advertise a case so long as they have dealt with the original case and closed the bubble.

Our school reports to us every case. There has never been another case linked to the 4 cases identified so far. They reported to us that they had had to report an outbreak to PHE on the day that 2 unrelated children tested positive. Fair enough there may be positive cases who don't report to the school, and there may be children with symptoms who don't get them tested because they don't want to isolate themselves.

I read a lot of statistics and never realistically expected that my own dc would get any symptoms after contact in their bubble. It isn't that catching among adults (natural R only 3) and appears much less so among children. Nothing like chicken pox which c15 dc once caught in one day in my dds class!

I feel for school staff, my sister works in one. Parents are lying about symptoms, mixing households, getting tests then sending kids back instead of isolating. Nothing’s changed really to be ‘covid safe’ but lip service and staff have absolutely been left to it.

I’ve worked with children my whole career and there is no way they weren’t going to catch it and spread it like they do every other germ they catch. I’ve no proof or research to share but I do believe some of the rises have been due to school. Asymptomatic ( or other symptoms not noted by the government ) kids spreading to adults in school and at home. I bet if you mass tested antibodies in kids in a couple of months. Lots would be positive and parents would have been none the wiser.

In my current position( with children) I get PPE: can’t imagine having to work without.

"Our school reports to us every case. There has never been another case linked to the 4 cases identified so far"

There have been 30% of staff off in my school. 3 people in my dept tested positive within 2 days of each other. Similar happened to other departments.

None of those cases have been linked to any other ( even if staff to staff ) because outbreaks in schools aren't being investigated or acted on in any way or hasn't in mine at least.

Seems odd that the prevalence in the community is 3% but 30% in the school if they are not linked in some way.

Tier 1 here, in my immediate family we attend 4 different schools either as pupils or staff - 2 first schools, a middle school and a senior school. Positive cases in all 4 schools in the last 2 weeks before half term. Multiple cases in 3 of them. I love my job but my anxiety levels are now rising along with the cases...

I don’t know what the answer is, as a parent I know how important it is that my kids are in school, however they have both missed time due to isolating as close contacts of positive cases. As a staff member I know we are doing what we can (which really is just open the window and wash your hands - social distancing is not a viable option in primary) but frankly covid secure is not possible and mostly we are just relying on luck...

I do know it’s going to be a bumpy ride as we see kids and staff in and out as cases cause bubbles to burst or close contacts to isolate. My sons middle school had to close to year groups on a rota in the last week due to low staff numbers as so many self-isolating and I think this will happen more regularly in schools as too many staff are ill or isolating to open safely to all.

I love my job, I want to be in school doing my job - but I do wish it felt a little bit less like waiting for the inevitable to happen!

If a school bubble closes and one of the isolating children develops symptoms then they may not even report to the school that they have contracted it. Indeed, they may not even bother to get a test at that point as they have to isolate anyway.

I’m a pregnant teacher and unable to social distance and it makes me very worried. Nothing I can do.

I’m a TA in a large secondary school currently in Tier 1, but there’s talk of our borough going to Tier 2 if cases carry on rising.

I’m personally fairly satisfied with the protection levels put in place by the school. Apart from when we first went back, all TAs were working across huge year group bubbles! After getting advice (or a telling off) from PHE, we are now only working in one year group each. This is pretty crap because some TAs are not comfortable or confident in certain subjects. Personally, I quite like the variety of subjects, but I’m already sick of one particular challenging class. And we’re only one-sixth through academic year!

We’ve had 10 positive Covid cases in school this term, both staff and students. None at all for about two weeks now.

I’ve resigned myself to having to work in a high risk occupation, and that I might get Covid this winter. But it doesn’t worry me at all, I don’t think I’m high risk (I’ve lost weight recently, and am continuing to do so). I worry more about my elderly parents, and obviously mankind in general. Fortunately my DC in their 20s have safe jobs in IT, and are both working from home.

I’d be interested to hear from other TAs on this thread, and how they are feeling about it all.

I'm amazed at the attitude of some on this thread. They seem to just want the DCs in school and not give a thought for the safety of the staff. What's wrong with these people?

I'm happy with the protection levels at DD's school because I don't think they can do any better in the circumstances. I appreciate that track and trace and other things should be better but we are where we are with that. A DD's school, I don't actually think the staff are at higher risk than parents. At least the teachers don't have to sit close to anyone, unlike the pupils. If the pupils get it, the parents get it. I don't want DD's school to shut at this stage unless it's just for two weeks. They have already missed enough of their education.

@Belladonna12

I'm happy with the protection levels at DD's school because I don't think they can do any better in the circumstances. I appreciate that track and trace and other things should be better but we are where we are with that. A DD's school, I don't actually think the staff are at higher risk than parents. At least the teachers don't have to sit close to anyone, unlike the pupils. If the pupils get it, the parents get it. I don't want DD's school to shut at this stage unless it's just for two weeks. They have already missed enough of their education.

I'm guessing your daughter is in a year group bubble? Let's say 200 with 50 close contacts (friends and those she has lessons with). Between DH and I we are in classrooms with over 500 pupils a week (before adding in their associated bubbles). We also have one child of school age therefore are exposed too to their bubble and contacts.

@LastGoldenDaysOfSummer
I'm amazed at the attitude of some on this thread. They seem to just want the DCs in school and not give a thought for the safety of the staff. What's wrong with these people?
They’re the same selfish people on all the threads unfortunately Last. They’re more bothered about themselves than showing any concern for others.

@Belladonna12
A DD's school, I don't actually think the staff are at higher risk than parents. At least the teachers don't have to sit close to anyone
You clearly have no idea what’s going on in school.

Yes, there is a risk for teachers. it comes with the job. It is a risk
much lower than for some other professions (nurses, doctors, carers, early years providers, midwifes, cleaners, .....), but higher than for others (exclusively work from home professions).
Good schools are doing their best, but they need to do their best for children and teachers. its difficult

@LadyPenelope68 totally agree. And probably they're the first to bombard any teacher friends with requests to tutor their kids. People never stop asking me, whilst whining about their kids' teachers failing to pull grade 7's out of a hat for their kiddies. Shame we're all too exhausted and stressed to tutor 🤣🤣

The protection measures in my School are as good as they realistically can be. I agree with pp there is no such thing as a covid secure school, but I believe the Leadership Team are doing all they can.

The problem is that we can't control what happens outside of school. We have parents lying about symptoms and their sending kids in while they wait for test results, kids having big house parties with students from other bubbles and other local schools. We're powerless to do anything about it. The recent Christmas threads full of posters who are determined to see friends and family from multiple households regardless of the restrictions in place have made me worried for my vulnerable colleagues and their families when we come back to school in January.

I'm guessing your daughter is in a year group bubble? Let's say 200 with 50 close contacts (friends and those she has lessons with). Between DH and I we are in classrooms with over 500 pupils a week (before adding in their associated bubbles).

As I said, at DD's school the teachers answered being as close to the pupils as the pupils are to each other. No way would they have "500" close contacts.

answered being aren't as

Our school, IMO, have done the best they could - hand sanitizers, disinfecting desks, reduced movement around school, one way system etc. I wear a face covering and lab coat when I cannot socially distance >2 m. .

[quote LadyPenelope68]@Belladonna12
A DD's school, I don't actually think the staff are at higher risk than parents. At least the teachers don't have to sit close to anyone
You clearly have no idea what’s going on in school.[/quote]
I know what's going on in DD's school. She is 17 and would have more of an idea of what is going on in her school than you, assuming you are not the same school. It is unlikely that the same thing is happening everywhere.

I have mixed feelings. I think our school are doing really well, and really putting staff and children first in their thinking. They are trying very very hard but it's not perfect.

We have staff in who have very very vulnerable family members, which worries me.

We have a one way system which works in some ways but also puts parents more at risk at gates and lanes because they are forced to new up close with other parents.

School provides a Walking bus which is between different bubbles.

You see certain members of staff not distancing and walking past different groups etc and that's public so goodness knows what happens when parents aren't around.

There are staff members on the gates to stop non parents coming through but they make exceptions for people they know, like high school children making a cut through.

Mostly I feel at risk though. They do things to keep staff and children safe but then force parents into areas where is harder to social distance.

There is no perfect answer though.

At my secondary school, they have stopped telling us when there are positive cases. My colleague's cleaner was absent for two weeks. She had tested positive and become quite unwell. The teachers were not informed. My colleague subsequently fell ill and tested positive. The school was apparently under no obligation to tell us, as the cleaner had fallen ill on the Friday and then 4 days had lapsed by the time she informed the school (got her results.) God knows how many other people she had infected.It is just wrong. We did not sign up for this. Apart from healthcare workers, who did sign up to work with sick people, we are the only group in society that are being treated like this and are not being protected. I'm scared now, Two of my teacher friends are in intensive care. If I send a severely coughing kid to the office, I'm told to 'see how they go.' Parents are sending their kids in sick. They do this in normal conditions, but it's just not acceptable at the moment. Oh, and we have to turn off Track and Trace as soon as we enter school grounds.

Teens mostly where I am do well with certain aspects of masks and hand washing.
However they do believe mostly they are safe in their bubbles, they hug, sing, get very close to each other.. Share food ands drinks and complain, loudly and incessantly that the rooms are are too big cold... Whilst wearing next to nothing.
So from that aspect it worries me.

Many teachers also want windows closed, complain room are chilly, tell students off for wearing coats in class...

I'm amazed that some people don't think we have to get close to the kids. My classroom is tiny, with 32 kids per lesson, 6 lessons a day. 2 of the windows don't even open. My desk is attached to the front row of desks. My subject is a massively vocal one, and it's brand new to year 7. I LOVE my job and I'm good at it, but I'm seriously considering leaving the profession. There are massive staff shortages in my subject area.