To ask if you are happy with the protection levels at school?

[MissMissICantDoThis]

I am a teacher so feel that I have some insight into what is going on in schools and I am feeling increasingly worried about the 'second wave'.

We have guidelines at our school and they mainly protect us adults. In reality, I couldn't do my job without breaking the guidelines and putting myself at risk. I accept this and felt that I accepted the risk in general. In my circle it is generally 'brave face and no complaining' attitude so I do not hear anyone talking about it.

I have mixed feelings for my own children. My son seems genuinely scared for the adults in the family and I am doing my best to support this.

I do not think that they will close schools again. The damage that the last lockdown did is evident. However, I am increasingly in favour of closing them again for a circuit breaker at least. The scientific evidence is so mixed that I do not know what to believe and wonder if the government are purposely being vague to avoid lockdown. Death rates are inevitably down compared to the first wave now that they only count deaths within 28 days yet they announced that it can take several weeks for someone to become critically ill.

My friend has a worried child too and she has said that if necessary, she will take her child out and face the fine. Is anyone else's child really worried? How do you feel about this?

I am genuinely prepared to accept that I am on half term and have spent more time watching the news than I normally would. Am I allowing myself to be scaremongered?

Do I think schools are Covid safe? No
Do I think they can ever be Covid safe? No
Do I think the government could & should do more? Yes
Do I think we might have a circuit breaker? Yes
Do I want my kids to go to school? Yes

I had very bad pneumonia some yrs ago & was hospitalised (I was in my 20s & fit). It's definitely made me more susceptible to chest infections, etc so I'm not 100% unaware of the implications. However I'm not particularly any more worried about Covid vs cancer or heart disease.

There's a flu vaccine, lots of teachers get it. My school pays for teachers to get it. Primary school kids automatically get it. Vulnerable people automatically get it.

I think it's quite farcical to say that schools need to be open at all costs because of education. I'd rather the problem was faced head on: it's about childcare mostly.
No school is covid secure and it equates to mass gathering for a prolonged time.

If education was the most important thing than there would be options, workarounds. Both for primary and secondary schools

1. have a homeed solution where kid is enrolled in school, but parent acknowledges that they are responsible for child's education and the school will test/assess every term and help by letting the parents know the topics and materials to be used.
2. blended learning would be available (as per germany ECV teachers teach online ECV kids)
3. Blended learning as in one cohort of class in one week, other in the next. This would have needed a huge overhaul of the material in the summer term and in the summer.
4. GCSE and A-level strategy should be in place by now. Kids/parents need to know in advance what is going to happen.
5. just don't threaten with fines. Suspend fines in general. It's a pandemic and school cannot know the personal circumstances of each family. (Richmond & Kingston in London are doing this thankfully)
6. if nothing else: everyone at every time needs to wear a mask

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Instead the conversation is about :

• how masks are terrible and kids suffer because of it
• schools are safe (wtaf?)
• kids need education.

The problem is that as valid as these are, they are about the narrative and not trying to solve a problem. I would have expected unions and Dfe to actually define the problem, and come up with multiple solutions. But it's just letting people talk amongst themselves while the actual ppl who have the power to evoke change sit back. Salami tactics at best, stupidity at worst.

@YellowBeryl1

To put into perspective most peoples risk from virus is negligible, their risk from poverty and unemployment is high. I'm happy my kids are in school and I'm hay working, we are getting paid, in full, which is more than a lot of people!

This!!

Have you spent the last 15 years petrified of catching it at school and wanting to weed face masks and enforce strict social distancing etc amongst children in schools

Don’t want to speak for op. But I’m guessing she gets vaccinated for the flu every year. Not currently an option for Covid.

Schools are not Covid secure. My DD went to school last week and came home again (driven by DH). She went nowhere else, literally, and has had no contact with anyone not in her bubble.

She tested positive for Covid this weekend. Her bubble (exam year group) has now closed for 14 days.

There is nowhere she can have caught Covid except in school. And I'm wondering how many others have. We are now self isolating as a family, but none of the rest of us showing symptoms yet.

Work in a school in Greater Manchester. First 6 weeks about 15 cases 2 of which were staff. Masks worn in corridors and ppe allowed in class but can't be worn the whole time obviously.

After 3rd year group were sent home week 4/5 we started "contact tracing" in school.

Last 2 weeks one third of staff off, at least 10 positive cases (not that we were being informed) 2 student cases a day.

Seeing so many colleagues going off within a couple of days I thought to myself I'll catch it too before half term most likely. If not, definetely by Christmas. It did not take that long. I tested positive the first day of half term. How many kids did I unwittingly infect standing at the door in my mask giving them a squirt of sanitiser (as we are required to?)

I think anyone would get anxious when you see a third of colleagues in your workplace go off for covid tests within a couple of days. Then the positives kept rolling in.

Community infections were 4 per 1000 per week in the community at the time. Staff cases in the school must have been about 20 times that.

"Significant reduction in risk" my arse!

Fred wouldn't it be useful if the rest of the bubble was now tested to see if there were any asymptomatic cases?

There seems to be an assumption by PHE that if there's a case in a bubble it was caught in the community and not at school where there could well be asymptomatic cases spreading.

@TheSunIsStillShining

I think it's quite farcical to say that schools need to be open at all costs because of education. I'd rather the problem was faced head on: it's about childcare mostly. No school is covid secure and it equates to mass gathering for a prolonged time.

If education was the most important thing than there would be options, workarounds. Both for primary and secondary schools

1. have a homeed solution where kid is enrolled in school, but parent acknowledges that they are responsible for child's education and the school will test/assess every term and help by letting the parents know the topics and materials to be used.
2. blended learning would be available (as per germany ECV teachers teach online ECV kids)
3. Blended learning as in one cohort of class in one week, other in the next. This would have needed a huge overhaul of the material in the summer term and in the summer.
4. GCSE and A-level strategy should be in place by now. Kids/parents need to know in advance what is going to happen.
5. just don't threaten with fines. Suspend fines in general. It's a pandemic and school cannot know the personal circumstances of each family. (Richmond & Kingston in London are doing this thankfully)
6. if nothing else: everyone at every time needs to wear a mask

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Instead the conversation is about :

• how masks are terrible and kids suffer because of it
• schools are safe (wtaf?)
• kids need education.

The problem is that as valid as these are, they are about the narrative and not trying to solve a problem. I would have expected unions and Dfe to actually define the problem, and come up with multiple solutions. But it's just letting people talk amongst themselves while the actual ppl who have the power to evoke change sit back. Salami tactics at best, stupidity at worst.

Completely disagree

School is about SO much more than just maths, English etc.

It’s about sport, independence, friendships, camaraderie, debate, competition, laughter etc

That’s what my children get from school anyway. Along with of course, an”education”

I don't know how the teachers in our school feel, but I am fairly relaxed about how the school has organised things:

Masks in corridors and any mass meetings places, ie: lunch queue.
Individual year entry and exits points
Individual year areas of the school with own toilets
Several lunch sittings
Classes ventilated, open windows if possible, if not, open doors to corridors, main doors to outside propped open
Sport, music, drama and signing all happening, but again in year groups

We have had one case, school did trace of close contacts, just those contacts sent home. No further cases, and this in a school where most of the students come in by coach or train.

I realise we have been very lucky, but still, so far, all seems well.

@noblegiraffe Agree. It probably would - but of course they will only test people showing symptoms. The rest of the year group simply have to isolate now for 14 days. Presumably Boris' marvellous testing system (which was necessary for schools to open safely) won't cope with testing all those people who aren't showing symptoms...

It is a shame that the government didn't consider the advice from SAGE that making all half terms 2 weeks long would be helpful as kids and staff incubating it would have it over the holidays and not transmit it at school as long as they had antibodies.

My kids are secondary and there is little protection imo. Each case that's occurred has only led to the close contacts being sent home and not the bubble bursting which is good for disrupting as few kids as possible but I'm interested how a case in a secondary never crosses bubbles.
If someone goes home with symptoms starting in second period on a Wednesday why doesn't the person who sat in that place in first period (who is probably a different year) get sent home?
If my child's subject teacher gets a positive test why don't the kids who sit near the teacher get sent home?

@Enoughnowstop

Also a teacher. There is no protection. It is not good enough.

This.

It’s about sport, independence, friendships, camaraderie, debate, competition, laughter etc. That’s what my children get from school anyway. Along with of course, an”education

Of course this is true. But it doesn’t mean schools are safe. If we get any more staff of sick, the school will have to shut to year groups.

"That’s what my children get from school anyway. Along with of course, an”education”"

I am not in favour of closing all school by any means but surely at some point if there is a significant outbreak that school should be allowed to close for a deep clean / have or xtra testing/ switch to home learning for 2 weeks?

Are people really comfortable with the idea that it does not matter how many staff/students start dropping with covid. Lots of ta's, dinner ladies, cleaners and supply teachers are 50+. What about kids with vulnerable parents who are not allowed to shield?

@walksen

Work in a school in Greater Manchester. First 6 weeks about 15 cases 2 of which were staff. Masks worn in corridors and ppe allowed in class but can't be worn the whole time obviously.

After 3rd year group were sent home week 4/5 we started "contact tracing" in school.

Last 2 weeks one third of staff off, at least 10 positive cases (not that we were being informed) 2 student cases a day.

Seeing so many colleagues going off within a couple of days I thought to myself I'll catch it too before half term most likely. If not, definetely by Christmas. It did not take that long. I tested positive the first day of half term. How many kids did I unwittingly infect standing at the door in my mask giving them a squirt of sanitiser (as we are required to?)

I think anyone would get anxious when you see a third of colleagues in your workplace go off for covid tests within a couple of days. Then the positives kept rolling in.

Community infections were 4 per 1000 per week in the community at the time. Staff cases in the school must have been about 20 times that.

"Significant reduction in risk" my arse!

Did nobody else read this?!

If we don't actually doing something to stop spread in schools (instead of just hiding the data like Ecosse suggests) then schools will close anyway due to lack of staff. And if they get staff, who knows which subject teachers will be "teaching" what, as it will be all hands on deck!
You do NOT want me teaching languages, music or art. But it may come to that soon...

@Sodamncold

No because I have been fortunate to get the flu vaccine.

Do I want this life for children if it can be avoided? Hell no!

I was happy with the things my dd's school (primary) have in place they seem to have put robust procedures in place and have a school that is oversized for the intake, up until she got a cough (developed during the day) I didn't get a phone call, nothing was mentioned at pick up, if they ignored her coughing how many others have they also ignored (got tested and was negative but since this was the day they broke up they haven't a clue either way). Is her primary school ignoring any potential cases so they can claim they've not had any?

@starrynight19 agree re the Italian schools.

When they mass tested at universities they found 10% of positives had symptoms and 90% were asymptomatic .

My kids are teens with adult sized bodies so I suspect that if they mass tested secondary students that the numbers would be similar and there would be 10s of thousands (100s of thousands?) of more cases. I understand it would look bad politically but herd immunity by stealth isn't a strategy that's going to work. We know that antibodies don't last and we can't test for T-cells atm

Of course this is true. But it doesn’t mean schools are safe. If we get any more staff of sick, the school will have to shut to year groups.

The individual school & location matters as well. I'm in London & we had it pretty bad earlier on. My dcs school would have closed by default the weekend the announcement came as lots of staff/pupils were off ill. We have had once case in Sept & nothing since then. Now will this be the case in Dec, probably not however at the moment I would still prefer my dc to be in school.

I heard that Belgium is having to rope in parents to stand in front of classes due to so many teachers being off with covid.

A good opportunity for all those happy with how safe schools are should that situation arise here.

Is her primary school ignoring any potential cases so they can claim they've not had any?

More likely that most children in the class are coughing at this time of year and no-one taking responsibility for follow ups.

I had the flu jab & caught the flu & then developed pneumonia (I was pregnant) because vaccines can't protect you from every strain. I'm assume this will be the case with the Covid vaccine too.

Those posters skeptical of fact that those happy with situation don’t actually have to be in classrooms and therefore think that is why we are happy with seem to forget something fairly significant

OUR children are going in. And whilst I don’t speak for everyone, certainly from my perspective - I regard my children as a heck of a lot more precious that me!