To think we should be honest

[thegreenlight]

It’s schools that are causing so many cases, not shops and restaurants. I’m a teacher, we should absolutely, positively keep schools open but why do tier 3 lockdowns act as if it is anything other than schools that are causing the jump in cases? We are punishing businesses because we don’t want to shut schools but want to look like something is being done. If you want schools to stay open, just acknowledge that there will be more cases and carry on. AIBU? Are we targeting restaurants and shops unfairly to create the illusion of containing the virus?

It’s not an either/or. We shouldn’t be shutting anything for an infection with less than 1% mortality rate.

My children's school has had no cases amongst pupils or staff. Secondary school, and many children use public transport to travel.
We're in a low-risk area of the country.

Rates went through the roof when uni and college returned in my local area. Before that we were pretty average.

No outbreaks in any of our schools here. There were a couple when schools first opened, one linked to teachers who had thrown a house party. Schools are not causing a problem here.

I totally agree.

I totally agree that restaurants and pubs are the sacrificial lambs to look as though the Government is doing something when data shows the transmission rate in this sector is incredibly low indeed. That industry is going to the wall.

However, I do also agree they need to keep schools open but are not being very truthful with the transmission data in this area. It's a very difficult balancing act and one that every country is trying to navigate, not just ours.

We shouldn’t be shutting anything for an infection with less than 1% mortality rate.

Indeed, we should open everything up and wait til the mortality rate hits 3 or 4% before closing again.

Tier 3 here.
I have 2 kids in one primary school. An 18 year old in college and a SD in nursery attached to primary in a town 20 miles away within the same tier 3 region.

After 2 weeks at college, my eldest was sent home as a positive case in his class of 20.

As his ended my middle child was sent home for 2 weeks due to positive cases in his bubble. At the same time a whole bunch of groups got sent home. Yr 6, 5, 4 and 3 plus breakfast and after school club bubbles. It was all within 4 days each group went down as positive cases were being reported. Some were staff. Some were students. Even the head tested positive.
On the day my 2 returned (youngest was because of the breakfast club bubble) yr 2 went down along with quite a few from my youngest class in yr 1 as they had mixed with yr 2 for phonics.

My SD's school had 4 year groups off over a 3 week period, and a week before half term just as mine went back, hers went off in the nursery. Again both staff and students.

It is rife around here. I know a lot of people testing positive who are unwell. My uncle was admitted to hospital just over a week ago. He is 57, athletic and fit. No underlying conditions. It still floored him. He has responded to the new treatments (Remdesivir) well luckily, but still not out of the woods.

I agree with you OP. My one-form entry primary school has shut 4 classes so far. 4 staff and at least 2 children have been positive, me being one of them. The children just aren't being tested as they're either a symptomatic or it just presents as a cold.

3 cases at my children's school.... but none of the children who were told to self isolate as a result have developed any symptoms. Admittedly, it could all be asymptomatic and those children are now happily spreading it to their families who are, in turn, spreading it elsewhere. But.... I'm not convinced. I had assumed that going back to school, which I supported, was going to be absolute carnage, and it hasn't. So.

@UnderTheNameOfSanders

As far as I am aware, my DD's secondary hasn't had any cases of transmission within the school. It has had a handful of isolated cases, but no linked ones.

Make of that what you will.

as far as I am aware is the correct phrase here.

My DC got a positive result. The HT announced that the case came from a family member. That’s not true. I corrected them and said no one in the wider family had any symptoms or been tested. Yet there is another positive child in the same year group who tested positive first.

@Crazycrazylady

My sons teachers tested positive last week, The class of 24 were tested and all came back negative. It looks to me that (primary) schools are not a significant source for transmission.

@Crazycrazylady please tell me how 24 children qualified for a test when I can’t get one (despite living in a household with a positive person) because I’m not displaying any of the 3 key symptoms?!

There have been 2 confirmed cases in DS’s secondary, neither of which have meant he had to isolate. We are in a higher risk area where cases are rising rapidly.

It’s about cumulative risk though: cutting it as possible by stopping the “non-essential” things whilst allowing the more essential things to continue. Of course appalling for those who work in the “non essential” places. And of course awful for those taking a risk at work (teachers, hcp, supermarkets...).

But, schools are more essential. Would be very difficult to keep economy going and have any sort of future social mobility if schools shut again. It’s much more damaging to education of children who don’t have access to computer, WiFi, safe, warm, quiet place to work, whose parents jobs will go if they don’t work. It’s not great for any children of course, but a chasm between children from secure (financially, socially and emotionally) backgrounds and those in poverty or in chaotic homes is appalling. But how would parents like it if children with FSM were educated in school building and everyone else at home? I’d not be happy for mine!

Not one case in DC's primary school.
Didn't case start to go up before school re-opened? Plus cases from the first two weeks after they re-opened would also have been contracted prior.

The scientists have always said transmission between younger children is low. I personally think it’s university students. Did anyone watch the channel 4 debate last week? The student from Leeds uni who came on via video link to say covid isn’t a serious matter for most people so we should all just carry on like normal. He had covid fwiw and he was justifying it by saying ‘no one he knew had been seriously ill and he had just lost his sense of smell’. There was an 18 year old in the studio who had covid a few months ago and had been hospitalised despite having no underlying conditions so she came down on him like a tonne of bricks.

Anyway, my overall point there is that a lot of uni students don’t give a shit.

A lot of speculation here which is not entirely helpful for those of us grafting in schools trying to keep on keeping on while worrying about our own families and the kids.

Lots of lovely anecdotes here. For a bit more data, I suggest the ONS survey. This tests a sample of the population, so includes people with no symptoms. Link here: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/previousReleases

You want section 4 to show age breakdown in the latest report. Primary age has only just started creeping up - which suggests transmission coming from outside schools.

The secondary picture is more mixed. The big issue is 16 plus.

A new study is starting along the lines of the ONS just looking at schools so it will be interesting to see the results when available.

The thing is, with primary children they are picking it up and bringing it in. They don't take themselves off out to mix without their parents. Now some of this can't be helped, parents have to work, children have to go to childcare after school - but parents can also do their bit by recognising that they have a child/children in school and so keep their own and their children's non essential mixing to a minimum. Someone on here a while ago likened it to a personal risk 'budget' and I agree. I have primary aged children. They're our biggest risk of contracting and spreading it (and taking it into school!). As such, we keep our social mixing really to an absolute minimum with this in mind. My child free friend does not have particular this concern, so she mixes a little more freely.

Seeing a small handful of close people sensibly at a distance outdoors to keep sane during these times? Completely understandable. Hosting play dates of multiple households, parents competing in team sports/going to the pub/being out with every Tom dick and Harry that they fancy - even if it is technically within the guidelines? Well it's no wonder it's getting into schools is it.

We have 2 schools in our small town, one has had one positive case, the other has had none at all this half term. We are in a local lockdown - but it's obviously not schools to blame here!