This is a depressing attitude

[Disillusionedsusan]

Just spoke to a 12yo on our green.. He and another had been repeatedly taunting a younger child over last few days. Chanting a song with the child's name in it, rounding the child on their bikes while chanting etc. So today I went out and I said I was speaking to him as I knew he was older than the others and would understand why the behaviour was unkind. He said the child had called him a name. I said that was also wrong but it is different to taunting as a habit and to purposely upset someone. He replied it was a bit of fun. I told him in school it would be seen as bullying behaviour and he disagreed, says it happens all the time in his class. I told him that if he's purposely doing something else to upset someone for fun it is unkind and did he understand that? No he said quite unmoved. I find this so depressing tbh. That even when an adult spoke calmly and even calmly to him, he could see no wrong. Hate to think what he'll be doing unchecked in a few years.

@Disillusionedsusan, my optimistic spin on it is that he could have been putting on a front to save face. I was a right little shit as a young teenager (though not a bully) and I would never back down when being told off by an adult, but instead put on a blank face and pretend not to be affected by anything that was said to me. I knew this was the easiest way to wind up teachers/intervening adults. I like to think that I'm now a public spirited sort of person who donates to foodbanks and tries to make people feel happy whenever I can!

@IAintentDead

I challenged a 14 year old once (in my early 40s). He. grabbed his crotch and asked if I wanted him to give me one. For once I reacted quickly and said if he needed his nappy changing he should go home for his mum to do it.

His mates thought it was hilarious, one of them even shouted 'Good on yer miss - ee asked for that'

Awesome come back!

Yes brilliant comeback! You might be right, the unmoved face may have been an act. He didn't wind me up as such as I walked away. The thing that got me I think is the he needs to learn to take it and the fact he agreed it was designed to upset and was fun.. I would have expected 'I didn't do it' 'He did it to me' 'I didn't know he was upset' or even a quick sorry before him being totally OK with it.

Friday was the funeral of a 12 year old from my region who took her own life due to bullying. Her bullies are carrying on with their their lives. Probably moved on to bully someone now else.
I think at 12 he definitely knew what you were talking about.

He did understand he was just fronting it out. Some kids don’t crumble easily

I'd agree, I think his reaction was face-saving typical denial tactics - I'm sure what you said went home in some way. He's 12; it's a difficult age, still child but beginning to see older teens as models and try to emulate their behaviour, and usually getting it wrong. Well done for speaking to him, OP

Well, he had an answer for everything, didn't he? The little sod. You have to hope he was putting on a front because if he genuinely doesn't get that it was unkind then it doesn't bode well for his future character and behaviour. Well done you for trying to put him straight. He may reign it in if he thinks he's being observed or just become more subtle about it. True bullies are quite resourceful fuckers.

To be fair any attempt at conversation like that with a kid round here would result in them telling you to fuck off or (if there was another adult in the vicinity) shouting loudly that you were a paedo or bullying them. So your conversation certainly could have gone worse.

I agree it's depressing though. 30-40 years ago even the hardest kid in my primary school wouldn't have dared talk back to an adult. Now it's commonplace. My neighbours kids are all under 11 and regularly call me and my family names. Their scummy parents encourage it and think it's funny.

I suspect he knows full well that it's upsetting, he just didn't want to lose face in front of you.

It's the attitude I grew up with. My family think if you do or say something you think is funny but that hurts someone else, that's their problem not yours. It's why I have no contact with them.

@PinkiOcelot, I read about that poor person. It made me think as does the OP, what on earth is wrong with us? Why would anybody think it is acceptable.

My experience is same as others. OP's words will most likely have much more effect than the lad let on. Even if he was a teen it would count. Teens act like they don't care about adults speaking to them, but they still pay a lot of attention to adults paying them attention. It matters.

It is sad, but like others say you don't know what effect it will have...though it largely depends on the attitude at home I think, and other adults he comes into contact with regularly.

I once had a really nasty little boy in my class (year 8) and having been sworn at once too often, I arranged a meeting with dad (no mum at home). I soon realised I was on a losing wicket when dad announced proudly 'I've told my son he never has to apologise to anyone, especially a woman.' It all became clear. No amount of input from me will change that boy's attitude when this is his reality. Talk about being set up to fail, poor kid.

But a word at the right time has made a difference for many a child, even if not immediately apparent. Good for you.

He knew. He just didn't give a shit. Probably has parents that will back up, too, because they don't want to deal with it.

I'm fed up of all the people I hear excusing children's shitty, bullying behaviour, claiming everyone else is lying, or they're 'too young' to know what they're doing, or that the victims deserve it for some reason.... so many excuses, so much bullshit. Just can't be arsed to parent properly.

Bad apples don't fall far from the branch. With this in mind good luck when one the parents come calling, because you spoke to their child.

I've already considered that Devilesko, mum always salutes etc. I don't think she's a thug or anything. I'd say she's more likely to hope I don't come knocking but we'll see. Should she call, I'll be equally calm and reasoned with her and I'll also be clear that I know children are capable of plenty and if always prefer to hear wrt my own child too. I'll let her know tho that there was no denying today, he's definitely a denier usually, so that there's no query about that.

Thanks to all posting above, it is depressing. I'm an extremely empathetic person, too much sometimes, but I was mean at times as a young child and even a bit later but I was taught repeatedly about kindness and wasn't allowed complete freedom. Also parents did tell back then and they didn't fall out, they thanked the, as we called it, 'dobber'! That's the big difference I think. Imagine parents encouraging their child to abuse a pp, just disgusting.

Don't think for one moment that this behaviour doesn't also exist in adults.

There are countless similar situations in offices up and down the country where 'just a bit of fun' is mantra of groups who think it's fun to make someone the butt of a joke / comment.

I strongly suspect the majority do know it's bullying, but when in a group, they seem to succumb to peer pressure and believe their responsibility is magically diluted.

That said, whilst many will recognise it as bullying, plenty really do not see it that way. There are some who really do believe the 'just a bit of fun' mantra. It's saddening.

That is very saddening, as you say. I think the just a bit of fun that also causes upset should be deciding factor. Some people must really suffer with this kind of thing. Sad to hear a pp say that was the way in her family.

He replied it was a bit of fun.

The number one excuse in every bullies book.

You did an excellent job of helping him reflect. He coped by being defensive and brushing your comments off. However watch this space ... watch if he stops or continues his poor behaviour. If he stops then your comments helped him review his behaviour. If he doesn’t stop take it up a level and give the issue to the parents. Make a home visit and spell the problem out

It’s only fun if both parties find it fun

Thank you porridge and absolutely.

My own dc told me that the boy's dsis said I was really mean while I was talking to him..

Sounds like he's not used to being told home truths

He's continuing it today, the child is minding his own business, playing away from him.. I cannot call to house as I have to restrict movements.. Husband refuses to do it. The child is fairly well supported by the pals he's with and I have given sympathetic looks out the window so at least he knows an adult can see. Tbf he seems to be doing well to 'handle it' today.. What a little shit that boy is.

Husband says he will consider going round tomorrow.