AIBU to have been shocked of the selling of IV drips in our shopping centre.

[Trialanderror02]

Hi
bit of background my DD has intestinal failure, and so requires IV nutrition via a central line every day for 14 hours. This has landed us in many tricky dangerous situations over the years. Her IV nutrition bags are for fluids / vitamins / micro elements / metals / glucose. This bags are yellow fluid not usual IV saline bags.
We were shopping yesterday for pyjamas in Westfield’s and I was shocked to discover in a pop up seating area with IV stands and 2 women taking selfies attached to these exact looking IV bags, apparently this is a thing 🙈 I looked at the “ menu “ which literally looked like a cocktail bar menu. You could design you own IV bag by adding certain elements for more money etc.
Am I behind the times to be shocked about this casually being sold in the middle of a shopping centre ?
One of them is called a party drip.

Everyone seems to be missing the fact that lots and lots of nurses and paramedics and pharmacists are also prescribers!

Not all medication is administered on a doctors say so, the nurses working these stations could be prescribing it themselves.

It'll be a phone/ zoom order- same as many nurse injector places for Botox. Doctor sits at home, nurse asks the 'safety' questions, doctor approves the order. Whilst the location is a bit 🤨 don't see it as any different to Botox clinics.

@QueenOfPain

Everyone seems to be missing the fact that lots and lots of nurses and paramedics and pharmacists are also prescribers!

Not all medication is administered on a doctors say so, the nurses working these stations could be prescribing it themselves.

How does this make it ethical?

@SD1978

It'll be a phone/ zoom order- same as many nurse injector places for Botox. Doctor sits at home, nurse asks the 'safety' questions, doctor approves the order. Whilst the location is a bit 🤨 don't see it as any different to Botox clinics.

It isn’t, in terms of legality or dubious ethics. But there are significant risks from IVs that don’t arise from subcutaneous injection.

I thought society looked down on casual intravenous drug use? it certainly did when I was an addict

More fool those nurse prescribers if they are doing that. They are probably even more vulnerable to being struck off than Drs.
Whoever is prescribing needs to assure themselves that there is more benefit than risk to the patient before prescribing and I don't know how they possibly could in this case because there isn't!

I doubt there are many nurse prescribers who can prescribe IV infusions.

This is pretty standard. It's been going on in America for a long time. Was only a matter of time before it came over here

I saw it on Dragon's Den too and was totally in disbelief.

If ever the phrase 'what the actual fuck?' was needed it's for this.

I've had two rounds of surgery in the last year, the second one followed by 8 weeks of IV antibiotics...every single time they tried to access a new vein it was torture, they had to go for hands and feet before eventually giving up and giving me a pic line. It's beyond me why anyone would do that through choice! I can't understand how that's sanctioned in a public space at all.

@Toddlerteaplease

Why do you doubt that? Do you know what you’re talking about?

“Non-medical prescribers” (as they’re called) can prescribe from the full BNF.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Well everyone’s getting their panties in a bunch about these things being given by unqualified people, and not prescribed and being unsanitary and blah blah.

In reality, they’re likely given by registered nurses or doctors, who are qualified and competent to prescribe them, and more than capable to establish IV access using ANTT. I’m sure they’re also more than capable of using ANTT to prepare a bag of normal saline and whatever additives the person has requested in whatever sterile field they’ve got access to in the shopping centre, whether that’s a stall or a cupboard or whatever.

If people can manage ANTT in dirty stairwells, on battlefields, people’s homes, then doing it on a designated work space in a shopping centre with appropriate cleaning equipment will be easy.

[quote QueenOfPain]@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Well everyone’s getting their panties in a bunch about these things being given by unqualified people, and not prescribed and being unsanitary and blah blah.

In reality, they’re likely given by registered nurses or doctors, who are qualified and competent to prescribe them, and more than capable to establish IV access using ANTT. I’m sure they’re also more than capable of using ANTT to prepare a bag of normal saline and whatever additives the person has requested in whatever sterile field they’ve got access to in the shopping centre, whether that’s a stall or a cupboard or whatever.

If people can manage ANTT in dirty stairwells, on battlefields, people’s homes, then doing it on a designated work space in a shopping centre with appropriate cleaning equipment will be easy.[/quote]
If you read any of my posts you’ll know that I have not said any of these things.

ANTT is perfectly feasible in a shopping centre if clinically indicated and if the benefits outweigh the risks of loss of asepsis or error

These are quack infusions, and so the benefits can’t possibly outweigh the risks.

@QueenOfPain yes. I'm
A nurse. The nurse prescribers I know are only allowed to prescribe a very limited range of drugs. That are appropriate to their role. And are not allowed to prescribe IV's.

I think whether you can or cannot prescribe within your role is irrelevant... I prescribe I work within my sphere of practice and can prescribe IV fluids.
Of note all prescribers should prescribe within their practice boundaries.
It is simply a con to rip people off as I said before morally wrong not necessarily outside law.

@Toddlerteaplease

Well it depends on the area of work, but someone who works in a department where they regularly need to prescribe fluids (I.e. in A&E or ACP’s in acute medicine or surgery) can of course prescribe fluids or IVABX or whatever else needs to be given IV.

An NMP in general practice wouldn’t prescribe fluids, of course.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. As a Nurse of at least 180 years It takes a lot to shock me, but this leaves me speechless!

I would write a formal complaint to the shopping centre and give trading standards a call, you need to be medically qualified to insert an IV drip into another person, surely there are also issues with hygiene as by the sound of it there are no proper hand washing facilities in the pop up stand.

WTAF!?!?!

How can they be allowed to stick needles into veins in a shopping centre and what weirdos want to do that kind of thing!?!

So many kinds of wrong on all levels.

I cant see that the sort of people that will go for this will have the knowledge to know what they actually need (which wouldnt be hooked up to a drip in a shopping mall!) i've been on drips for medical needs and it's not fun at all - why would you do that because you want to?

this should be reported to the borough council's environmental health section.
there are safety implications for the public.
also in london there used to be a licensing requirement for any therapy/activity that pierced the skin.
not sure if this has been amalgamated under some new regulation now.
it used to be under the london local authorities act.
that is a detail for env health.
it certainly ought to be looked into.
there are also issues re waste management, and env health have to check that correct procedures are in place, and a contract with a licensed operator for the collection and disposal of waste. and this would be hazardous waste.
please report them. i think that area is fulham&hammersmith.