Am I the only person who thinks parents should feed their kids outside of school?

[HalloweenDoughnutAnyone]

Obviously it goes without saying I don't want any child to go hungry. But. Am I the only person who thinks parents should feed their kids outside of school?

Just that really.. it's free school dinners. Not free lunch all year round.

I don't understand why people think the tax payer should be paying even more? Maybe, if you can't afford to cover the basics (food and clothing) you should think twice before having a child?

Or should we extend free school dinners, to cover all the food a child needs inside and outside of school ?

I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but I know people who rely on free school dinners. But have sky tv, expensive mobile contracts etc

I think this could be adapted to suit. The Govt have their priorities wrong. But that is no real surprise as Tory and BJ is so out of touch eith his Eton education. After all he can't even afford a nanny on 150K a year

Do you know what keeping schools (especially primaries) open during school holidays in some capacity is a fantastic idea.

It will be a safe place for vulnerable children, parents who can't get jobs due to the restrictions of term times may be able to go to work and the vulnerable children can be fed and kept warm.

I'm not suggesting the children be taught during these times just that these are safe spaces which could be kept open for those who need /want them.

The lack of affordable childcare is a major factor in child poverty.

@MrsBobDylan

I didn't mention footballers because of Marcus, I have a thing about how much they are paid generally and how our society venerates the wealthy as though the rest of us have not tried hard enough.

Just to be clear, I absolutely support what Marcus is trying to achieve and and think the government should have voted for this and they are corrupt, selfish shits.

The wealth gap is huge and there are extremely rich people who could stump up.

I don’t disagree with you, but the problem with hammering the very rich (I am not one by the way...although it would be nice), is that they already pay a large percentage of their earnings in tax. The other thing is you could end up driving them to move abroad and lose out on their tax altogether.

I completely disagree with the loopholes which some individuals and large corporations seem to find to avoid paying tax, and wish the government would clamp down on this. But successive governments haven’t managed it, so it can’t be easy.

@cantdothisnow1

Do you know what keeping schools (especially primaries) open during school holidays in some capacity is a fantastic idea.

It will be a safe place for vulnerable children, parents who can't get jobs due to the restrictions of term times may be able to go to work and the vulnerable children can be fed and kept warm.

I'm not suggesting the children be taught during these times just that these are safe spaces which could be kept open for those who need /want them.

The lack of affordable childcare is a major factor in child poverty.

At least one council in scotland does something like this in terms of meals and warmth.

It’s not childcare as is only a few hours a day, but certain schools are open holidays and weekends (they’re open to children from the various schools not just the ones from that school).

Children can go and get a hot meal and then there are safe activities for them to do for a few hours.

@ExpectTheWorst

It is absolutely the right thing to do, HOWEVER - you need to make sure that the kids are actually GETTING THE FOOD. I know that many of the packed lunches prepared for kids during lockdown at one particular school were NOT PICKED UP - the food was THROWN AWAY. I don't know what the situation was around the country, and hope that that was really just one exception, but I suspect not. There are sadly quite a number of parents out there who really are shit and couldn't even be bothered to go and pick up (or arrange to have picked up) the food that was provided for their kids. (No they weren't shielding, because there was drop offs in place for those that were).

The problem goes way beyond just providing free lunches during this really difficult time. The UK should be ashamed that there is even such a thing a child poverty and children going hungry in this country, and it needs to be tackled; something has gone very, very wrong.

This was the issue as well at the school I work at. Packed lunches were offered to all free school meals recipients ( before the voucher scheme was in place). Some families used the service but not all. It was an effective way to ensure that parents could access help and children in need were fed. The supermarket voucher scheme does not ensure hungry children will be fed. There are too many variables with family dynamics, priorities and capabilities. I am also clearly aware that children vulnerable children were going hungry with parents who did not bother to access the free packed lunches. As a school we are aware of issues in families and were checking in regularly. The supermarket voucher scheme is an ineffective way of reaching vulnerable children. Marcus Rashford has done a fantastic job of raising issues of child hunger and I hope an effective strategy can be formulated ( but I doubt it right now given the level of debate).

@cantdothisnow1

Do you know what keeping schools (especially primaries) open during school holidays in some capacity is a fantastic idea.

It will be a safe place for vulnerable children, parents who can't get jobs due to the restrictions of term times may be able to go to work and the vulnerable children can be fed and kept warm.

I'm not suggesting the children be taught during these times just that these are safe spaces which could be kept open for those who need /want them.

The lack of affordable childcare is a major factor in child poverty.

I think this sounds better than just giving out vouchers if I’m honest, as if the child was vulnerable it would offer them a safe place, and also they would be able to get a proper nutritious meal, which would not be guaranteed even with the vouchers.

No system is going to catch all children. Sadly the most vulnerable are often the hardest to catch.

School being open has its downsides too - some homes are too chaotic so even school attendance is low, transport can be an issue in holidays when children don’t always attend a school in walking distance and there is the stigma of being seen to be one of the poor kids going to school in the holidays.

The vouchers are a great idea because they catch all the children whose parents can’t afford to feed them.

The parents who choose not to bother are a different issue I feel and need to be targeted differently (though that is difficult with the never ending cutbacks to services).

@lyralalala

No system is going to catch all children. Sadly the most vulnerable are often the hardest to catch.

School being open has its downsides too - some homes are too chaotic so even school attendance is low, transport can be an issue in holidays when children don’t always attend a school in walking distance and there is the stigma of being seen to be one of the poor kids going to school in the holidays.

Yes completely agree with all of that which is why I think offering as a childcare option would be better.

We get childcare wrong in this country in my view. The Scandinavian model for childcare definitely has its merits.

I say that as a mother with 2 children at home because of SEN. I know not all children would cope with it and you will never catch all for a variety of reasons but that is no reason to do nothing.

@cantdothisnow1 I’ve never understood why there hasn’t been more government run childcare set up. Especially when the cost of tax credits went up and up and up.

I’m chair of a voluntary run playscheme and breakfast/after school club. Our model could be replicated in many areas with support (and voluntary run doesn’t Mean poor quality - we actually have the best Ofsted rating in our area) and even with paid staff could work successfully.

@Emmmie

Feellikefrighteningyeah

YANBU secondary school pupils waste a lot of FSM . I've seen them in the bin unopened and not collected during Ramadam. ££££ of waste food and money

Those damn Muslim students! They should be force fed during Ramadan.

I have no idea about the Ramadan comment and don’t see the point of singling out one specific group of people, but in my experience when helping out in our school over the years there was quite a lot of food wastage, and quite a number of kids either didn’t like or didn’t eat the free meals. I remember being quite shocked by the amount not eaten. I don’t know the answer to this but it does seem a shame that in some places food is wasted whereas other people would be grateful for it. I’m sure it’s the same with supermarkets, restaurants etc too....

@StarCat2020

The only downside to that is I'm not sure i would be a good fraudster You wouldn't make a good government employee as you are far too sensible and solved your voucher dilemma logically.

Damn. I spent all night dreaming of my future career too

In some cases, certainly not all, it may be down to shit parenting choices, selfish parents, stupidity etc but one thing is for sure, it's never the child's fault. It takes an utterly heartless piece of shit to be against feeding hungry children.

It’s more to help families struggling during the pandemic because the government are now only paying 2/3 of their parents wages. It’s going to be a dark Christmas for many. This is honestly the least the tories could do right now. We’re talking about children here, they at least deserve feeding...

It takes an utterly heartless piece of shit to be against feeding hungry children.

Yup, 322 of them in the government and quite a few on this thread

Maybe, if you can't afford to cover the basics (food and clothing) you should think twice before having a child? So if you could but now can't, do you think it's better to have the child placed into care, at the cost of the tax payer directly now and indirectly down the line to deal with the associated trauma, or to let them go hungry as a lesson to them to work harder in life and get a better job instead of being the feckless poor??

I have volunteered at a foodbank in the recent past. Some parents struggled to feed their kids and keep the heating on in winter. Some parents could not survive sudden financial shocks which impact us all. For example, the boiler breaking and needing replacement, or the car they need to get to work requiring an expensive repair. Poverty is real and increasingly it is families in work as well as those who are on benefit who are suffering, again from experience.

Funding one good meal a day is in my view something we should be doing.

You will find some isolated examples of parents taking the micky, but in the current environment some people are really struggling.

I don't care if my taxes pay for 100,000 piss takers as long as it means one child who is genuinely starving gets fed.
The thought of children going hungry really upsets me, I have a 4 year old and I just can't imagine how it would feel not being able to put food on her plate.

I was thinking about this recently.
Child benefit. I don't need child benefit. Maybe somebody could set up a charity that allows people to refer their child benefit to another family (like financial adoption) that could really use an extra £80 a month.

Or maybe try a scheme where people can volunteer to help, and you get assigned a family, who is in need of things like food, and you work with them to make sure their children eat etc.

I would happily let me child benefit payments go to another family that were genuinely in need. Or financially foster a hard up family. It's the little things like school uniforms that are expensive, new school shoes, underwear. Basic necessities that luckier people don't think twice about buying but families in poverty spend the small hours of the morning worrying about.

I've been there myself. I'm incredibly fortunate to not be in that position anymore, through 1% choices I've made and 99% luck.

My daughter never starved but I've had £4 in my bank to last a week until payday, and that's with two adults working full time.

It takes an utterly heartless piece of shit to be against feeding hungry children.

Not just heartless, economically incompetent.

The long term consequences of not feeding children are more expensive than school dinners.

Punishing innocent hungry children because you have an axe to grind with what you think is their parents fault is beyond heartless

Let’s see in the months to come how many people end up losing their jobs their homes their savings and see their lives go down the pan thanks to the way Covid has been handled. Wonder how many of them who voted Tory and currently think there are lots of moaning minnies who expect handouts might find themselves in a food bank queue, having to sell their car to pay the bills, putting cardboard in their shoes, going cold and hungry, spending hours trying to claim what they now see as being entitled to?

There are many many people in this country whose quality of life could plummet. The wolf is not far from the door.

Learn to stop feeling so smug and deluded that you don’t have to concern yourself with the fears of those living in poverty. Try and turn that smugness into kindness and a bit more actual understanding.

It could easily happen to many of us.

OP - question please? Did you benefit from the Eat Out To Help Out Scheme? That cost the tax payer far more.

People have lost their jobs and successful businesses. Others have not been able to reopen their businesses since March.

Of course they should have planned for all that, shouldn’t they?

Sure, some parents are feckless and will use the free school meals to cross subsidise other spending that we don’t approve of. That’s unavoidable. For a small minority of children, state institutions such as schools are better parent than the actual parents.

There are only two ways to avoid these problems: let the children suffer, or take the children away from their parents.

Both are pretty unpalatable. I’d rather spend a little more, allow myself to be “taken advantage of” and make sure families stay intact and children are fed.

A few never do Wells gaming the system, is worth it to protect vulnerable children.

I don't care if my taxes pay for 100,000 piss takers as long as it means one child who is genuinely starving gets fed.

And in reality most people aren't piss takers.

Every tax/benefits law will encourage a few piss takers.

At the other end of the scale, rules designed to allow family farms to function without being bankrupted by inheritance tax are used by the very rich (and I'm sure quite a few MPs) to pass on massive estates without tax charge, yet the Conservatives don't seem to be too concerned about these piss takers.

Yes, you are, you brave iconoclast, you. Nobody in the history of humankind has ever said that.

FWIW I agree with every word about MPs lunches, £12billion wasted on track and trace, the fact that children shouldn't suffer for parental choices and all the rest - I agree too that times are exceptional right now

But when Covid's over there'll still be parents who won't prioritise meals (that's won't, not can't) and many will have come to see paid-for holiday meals as normal. What do we do about it then, and why stop at meals anyway? Should the taxpayer also clothe the children and goodness knows what else?