To think that Bridget Jones is a terrible role model for women?

[malificent7]

I quite like the films...they are funny... but they do make me cringe.
Bridget overhears Mark Darcy slag her off. ( calling her a spinster- terrible sexist word) then ends up obsessed with him.
She has a perfectly lovely figure but we are led to believe she is fat as she permanently struggles to loose weight and become like her "stick insect" love rivals..
She is quite inept and bumbling....adorable but useless.
That bloody song " all by myself!"

I know as women we can probably all relate to Bridget on some level ..especially her insecueities but bloody hell...we should not want to be like her!

Am I missing the point here? Are the films/ book sexist or are they trying to highlight sexism? Either way...Bridget Jones is anti feminist .

@TatianaBis

Well, (a) Bridget Jones was of course a conscious re-working of Pride and Prejudice and (b) Jane Austen's focus was economic. That pressure also emerged at a different point in someone's life; by the 90s it was perfectly possible for a woman to be economically independent and live alone, well into your 30s, which was the age that Bridget was. At which point the media was making a big deal of women who had missed the bus and would therefore die alone, and would be too old to have kids. So some things had shifted and created a new narrative which Bridget as a character reflected.

What you mean is that it’s a cartoon version of P&P along with many others - Clueless, P&P and Zombies, Bride and Prejudice etc. Less original and inventive than Clueless imo.

There is nothing new about misogynists cawing about women dying alone. BJ’s focus was partly economic - Mark Darcy is of course a rich lawyer.

Yes, but many women are afraid of "dying alone, eaten by Alsations" or whatever. That's why they put up with shit relationships.

Bridget kind of made a mockery of that. The author isn't the narrator, remember. She might have been afraid of dying alone without kids (although she was terrified when she thought she might be pregnant) but the reader would have been thinking "is that so much worse than being shackled to a git like Cleaver all your life? And anyway, you have loads of friends and a full social life, you're not alone. And look at Magda, living the supposed dream as a wealthy SAHM, and she can't have a conversation without the kid shitting somewhere and she's got problems too."

I know she got her happy ending and all, but she had to find her self respect and kick Cleaver to the kerb to get it.

I think the films failed to get the point across that it was satire. Though how that could have been done I’m not sure. Tricky. Easier to play it straight I guess.

Are you really justifying the narrative on the basis of the fact she dumped an arsehole. Why was she with him in the first place?

I can’t say being a wealthy SAHM is any kind of dream of mine.

@TatianaBis

Are you really justifying the narrative on the basis of the fact she dumped an arsehole. Why was she with him in the first place?

I can’t say being a wealthy SAHM is any kind of dream of mine.

Because he was very charming and sexy. Hugh Grant played him very well. I could absolutely see why she made that mistake. I might have made it myself one time, although I do think I'd have seen the red flags. (But I'm younger than Bridget by quite some margin. I've been brought up on more warnings than she was.) There's no story or character development if she doesn't make mistakes and does the right thing all the way through. Lots of women make the mistake of falling for charming, sexy men. You see it on here all the time. And he was her boss, that happens too.

But she learned. She didn't let him sweet talk her back after he shagged that other girl. And in the next book, when he went round to seduce her because his ego had had a battering, she didn't relent and she chucked him out, even though she was in a bad place too.

Oh and as for the SAHM thing: Bridget was always being told she needed to get married and have kids and couldn't be happy otherwise. Magda was the living proof that it's not that simple either.

She was a reaction to a very 80s and 90s image of female perfection. It shows that even if you're falling short of who you should be, you're still okay,.

People talking about chicklit cliches might be missing the fact that Helen Fielding was pretty original. Lots of other then went on to imitate her.

HF had some great lines - it's pretty hard to capture that voice in a film. The film isn't bad, but it loses a layer of irony.

I didn't think she was a role model. She was just showing what it's like for lots of women of her age, with the pressure from mags etc to be thin and always beautifully dressed.
I really loved the books, the films not so much.

She was never a role model, where did you get that from? She was always a parody and women felt some affection for her because there was always one disaster they could relate to.

Honestly, a role model? It wasn’t like there was no feminism in the 90s you know 😂

If you don't like Bridget, try Cause Celeb, Fielding's first novel. Some similarities, but overall a different focus (vapidity of celebrity culture...still very relevant now).

Or my top comfort read, Olivia Joules and the Overactive Imagination. A ridiculous female James Bond saves the world

Yes, but many women are afraid of "dying alone, eaten by Alsations" or whatever. That's why they put up with shit relationships.

Bridget kind of made a mockery of that. The author isn't the narrator, remember. She might have been afraid of dying alone without kids (although she was terrified when she thought she might be pregnant) but the reader would have been thinking "is that so much worse than being shackled to a git like Cleaver all your life? And anyway, you have loads of friends and a full social life, you're not alone. And look at Magda, living the supposed dream as a wealthy SAHM, and she can't have a conversation without the kid shitting somewhere and she's got problems too."

I know she got her happy ending and all, but she had to find her self respect and kick Cleaver to the kerb to get it.

Yes, we're agreeing. The 'dying alone' fear wasn't particularly new, but Bridget reflected the contemporary narrative of it as a satire of the 90s slant of the new generation of career women who would die childless and alone. Her happy ending comes from realising what she has in her life, although obviously by that point it includes a handsome, rich boyfriend.

TatianaBis, Mark is rich, he's the new Darcy, and a romcom trope all in one. No one's claiming that there's much reality to any of it; most middle class Georgian women didn't get their billionaires. But the character's stated driver in the novels is never money. She has her own flat, a job, eats out constantly, travels, has comfortably-off parents. She frames her need for a partner in terms of emotional wellbeing, mini-breaks, kids and the middle class cliches of the Smug Marrieds.

Having rtft now, it’s so interesting how this has dated. It was only 25 years ago or less. I read it in my mid-twenties and was earning a similar salary to a publishing assistant, no way could I have afforded a flat round London Bridge even if it was down at heel then. I also couldn’t have managed the social life she had or bought any Voyage cardies 😁 Maybe her nice parents helped her out.

She has her own money and she wants some of Mark Darcy’s as well. No-one she dates is penniless or even poor.

Because he was very charming and sexy. Hugh Grant played him very well. I could absolutely see why she made that mistake. I might have made it myself one time, although I do think I'd have seen the red flags. (But I'm younger than Bridget by quite some margin. I've been brought up on more warnings than she was.) There's no story or character development if she doesn't make mistakes and does the right thing all the way through. Lots of women make the mistake of falling for charming, sexy men. You see it on here all the time. And he was her boss, that happens too.

But she learned. She didn't let him sweet talk her back after he shagged that other girl. And in the next book, when he went round to seduce her because his ego had had a battering, she didn't relent and she chucked him out, even though she was in a bad place too

He wasn’t charming and sexy he was just a twat. As if women haven’t always been brought up on warnings about cads - Cleaver is just Mr Whickham.

@TatianaBis

She has her own money and she wants some of Mark Darcy’s as well. No-one she dates is penniless or even poor.

Gav was only 22 and there was no suggestion he was especially well off. Their date consisted of home made spag bol round at his. She seemed happy with that.

They didn't meet again because she realised how young he was when he said he was only six when Charles and Diana married, and because he described her as "squashy".

@TatianaBis

Because he was very charming and sexy. Hugh Grant played him very well. I could absolutely see why she made that mistake. I might have made it myself one time, although I do think I'd have seen the red flags. (But I'm younger than Bridget by quite some margin. I've been brought up on more warnings than she was.) There's no story or character development if she doesn't make mistakes and does the right thing all the way through. Lots of women make the mistake of falling for charming, sexy men. You see it on here all the time. And he was her boss, that happens too.

But she learned. She didn't let him sweet talk her back after he shagged that other girl. And in the next book, when he went round to seduce her because his ego had had a battering, she didn't relent and she chucked him out, even though she was in a bad place too

He wasn’t charming and sexy he was just a twat. As if women haven’t always been brought up on warnings about cads - Cleaver is just Mr Whickham.

Of course he was a twat. A sexy, charming twat. Like many of them are.

As for Mr Whickham, the novel was based on Pride and Prejudice. That's why the hero was called Mr Darcy. What, we had a sexy charming twat from Jane Austen so now the character is done forever?

Women keep getting warned about these men and yet it keeps happening. At least Bridget had the strength to stay away once she realised who he was. She developed as a character. Hard to do that if you know everything at the start...

Nope, not a charming & sexy, just a twat.

My point is that cads are nothing new, so the idea that you were given more warnings that girls in the past is bizarre. That was rather the point of the Whickham narrative, and Sir Walter Eliot Jr, Henry Crawford, Whiloughby etc..

Oh course she is but isn't that the point? You're not supposed to look up to her and think you should be like her. She's funny because she's such a Trainwreck.

@TatianaBis

Nope, not a charming & sexy, just a twat.

My point is that cads are nothing new, so the idea that you were given more warnings that girls in the past is bizarre. That was rather the point of the Whickham narrative, and Sir Walter Eliot Jr, Henry Crawford, Whiloughby etc..

Well, Bridget found him charming and sexy, and from the story's perspective that's what matters. You may not find Hugh Grant attractive but he is generally considered a handsome man. Reading and watching Cleaver, I could see Bridget was making a mistake, but I can't say I didn't understand how it happened.

I appreciate that the charming cad character isn't new (what is?) but I am not sure how much women then or today take actual romantic life lessons from nineteenth century literature, at least not unless it's been updated so they can recognise the character as he manifests in their world. You seem to be implying that we have no need for modern updates of the charming cad and we've got all we need to know about him from how he looked in the 1800s. I disagree.

As for whether I had more warnings, well, I do think each successive generation of women has the benefits of the previous one's insights, and the 90s were a time of change; that's what inspired Bridget. She was living a life that was much more independent than most women in the previous generation had. That's great but also brings with it some uncertainty. Young women now aren't the first to experience fuckboys and red pillers, but the fact that they have a name for these types indicates an increased awareness of them and how they operate.

Perhaps not, but I don't think it's a "bizarre" thought.

Should clarify...we do take lessons from those nineteenth century books, but it's harder to spot Me Whickham in 2020 if you've only ever seen him in 1813. I put that badly.

YABU. It's a comedy. Not every character has to be a role model.

If Bridget Jones was updated to a 2020 version she would actually be very boring as a fictional character...assertive, high earning, slim, into yoga, vegan and scrolling on her phone constantly!

@UpHereforDancng

If Bridget Jones was updated to a 2020 version she would actually be very boring as a fictional character...assertive, high earning, slim, into yoga, vegan and scrolling on her phone constantly!

Someone did an outline upthread of what she'd be like and it sounded very funny. I'd read it.

Currently watching... thanks for the inspo OP

I was 18 when the film came out - I didn’t like it. Bridget was pathetic.

I read the book though and the only memory it left me was that at 9 stone she felt so fat - the only time I was ever much under ten stone I was quite unwell, so that alone made me feel like utter shit. Like, really really awful.