To ask why there is such food poverty.

[Helendee]

Please no flaming as I genuinely am seeking answers as to why so many children are going to school hungry these days.
This is not a critical or inflammatory post, I just want to know what’s gone wrong.
Obviously many of us are struggling financially because of Covid but food poverty was a huge problem before that.
Is it that benefit levels are too low to adequately feed our children?
What can we do to ameliorate the situation?

Porridge oats are as cheap as anything and if you can shop around then you can get loaves of bread for 20p reduced which is fine for toast with an egg or something. However poor people often don't have access to a large supermarket, or they have multiple kids, they rely on corner shops costing more or don't have the cash flow to do a bigger shop and buy in bulk. Child element of Uc is £280 a month for an eldest child plus child benefit on top so approx £300 for eldest child or single child if born before April 2017. This should be more than enough in theory to feed, clothe and entertain a child but in reality it probably gets spent on paying debts, topping up extortionate rent that isn't covered by rent element or paying utility bills Seriously so many ridiculous statements in here. Yes carbs are cheap, but aren’t we taking about feeding kids well. How much is fish, vegetables etc. As for entertaining kids- how much is a trip to the cinema for a family of 4? Oh I know we can all take walks in the rain and build dens, gets a bit boring for kids over the age of 4!

In some cases the money coming in simply cannot stretch far enough.

However in a lot of cases it is more due to poor money management, poor debt management, lack of knowledge about how to cook even a basic meal (and apathy about learning those fundamental skills), drug and/ or alcohol abuse, financial abuse, or just general fecklessness/ spending money on the wrong things ,- huge hauls of cleaning products is the latest trend it seems, and I have heard of several families where they are reliant on food banks because a chunk of their modest income is wasted on buying litres of zoflora and the like.

Some people don't help themselves. I'm a member of a local charity group that organises food giveaways to those in need (basically some in the group have contacts at local non 24hr supermarkets and get given a pile of unsold yellow stickered items at close of business every day). The food is good to freeze or use the same day. Many people who claim to be in need have asked for a bag of this food and then turned their noses up at it being 'out of date' which it actually isn't, and even if it was it's fine for a day or two.

I don't accept the freezer argument btw. I grew up relatively poor with only a larder fridge and freezer compartment within it. And no supermarkets because they weren't a thing in the 70s and early 80s, at least not in our era. It is possible to manage but having some knowledge of how and what to cook (and budgeting) is a big part of it.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

As for what can we do? I dont know. Removing the benefit cap would be a start. I don't know who how we tackle the lack of education re food though. My dc are lucky in the sense that I can cook, they've never had much by way of processed, pre made meals. But i know people who wouldn't have a clue. There's no funding for any kind of community classes, and if there were the people who need them probably won't want to attend.

99% of things come with "how to cook" written on them.

If these people are going hungry in the UK becuse they've not been "educated" in how to cook maybe they'd be better off being moved to one of the slower countries?

@Groundhogdayzz

Massive amount is due to wages not increasing in line with cost of living, and housing costs increasing way ahead of wages. Huge pay gaps between what top management and standard ‘workers’ earn.

Yes. Housing costs are out of control. The solution is council housing.

People saying healthy food isn't expensive. I've been in small local convenience stores. Very limited for fresh veg (mostly sell instant and processed foods) AND everything is more expensive (I've bought cheaper with Ocado).

If ppl choose to think that people who claim benefits are better off than if they were working it allows them to put issues like child poverty out of their minds

I don’t think benefits are too low, lots claim far more in benefits than they would in a NMW job. Plus if there are children they would get child benefit which would cover the cost of feeding a child.

Lack of cooking skills, lack of budgeting, making choices they can’t afford, not having savings to cover rainy days etc.

All too easy to blame the government but people make their own choices (obviously bar falling ill).

@Eviebeans

If ppl choose to think that people who claim benefits are better off than if they were working it allows them to put issues like child poverty out of their minds

Also, a large proportion claiming benefits are working.

I don’t think benefits are too low, lots claim far more in benefits than they would in a NMW job.

Yes but if they're in a NMW job they would get benefits as well as their wages.

That's true - lots of issues around food poverty...

@Helendee

Please no flaming as I genuinely am seeking answers as to why so many children are going to school hungry these days. This is not a critical or inflammatory post, I just want to know what’s gone wrong. Obviously many of us are struggling financially because of Covid but food poverty was a huge problem before that. Is it that benefit levels are too low to adequately feed our children? What can we do to ameliorate the situation?

For one thing, it's not 'these days' it has always been thus.

The reasons are different now though as in theory there's a welfare state there.

I always find on these kinds of threads ideas about stewing steak and porridge which are great in theory but being poor is hard and being poor is exhausting. I’ve been there- the constant waiting to see if your benefits have actually been paid. Worrying about every bill. Worrying about paying for shoes or sweets if your kids ask at the shop. Worrying if the gas will last another day. Being cold because you only put the heating on when the kids are there, packing nutrients because you go without to buy extra for the kids. Being more susceptible to illness and feeling crap as a result.
Making a casserole or porridge is sometimes hard when you’ve got nothing left to give. Making a lentil Dahl is shit when you learn how to cook lentils and your kids won’t eat it because they don’t like it and you’ve wasted another meal you can’t afford.
Also there’s a lot of judgement about money mis management but sometimes getting your kids the odd takeaway sets you back.. but for once you just want them to have something they’ve asked for and not have to cook. It’s very complicated.

I have to agree with @IceCreamAndCandyfloss
A lot can be done on a very low budget with some simple cooking skills. People are too quick to criticise the government and benefits system. Whereas a lot of people don't help themselves. Raising the NMW would help some people, yet kill smaller businesses who wouldn't be able to employ as many people.

In my experience in a lot of cases adults will prioritise alcohol, tobacco or drugs over feeding their kids

@Helendee

I think that schools need to teach basic cooking skills from year 3 onwards, it’s so sad that many are clueless now and I speak as a pretty poor cook in all honesty.

I agree. I loathe to use the term ' back in my day' as MNetters don't generally like this but when I went to secondary school ( and also middle school) we were taught how to gut a trout ( very cheap today,) how to make pastry several ways, eg, puff, shortcrust, how to roast different meats, how to make a simple soup, how make quiche, bread, pizza , sponge, as well as various cheap puddings . Indeed we learned how to save waste and to cook on a budget. We also learned how to wash, dry and iron. I also studied two languages, 3 sciences as well as humanities. I just don't understand why schools don't teach domestic science anymore. Our domestic science lessons were based on thrift and economy. This was in the 70s. I despaired of my children ( who are in their 20s ) who were taught , at secondary, how to design a biscuit, how to design a pizza and how to design a sandwich without cooking a single bloody thing! I will admit to eating the very best leek and potato soup that my son made... the only cooking that either of my children did!

Oh and a very high link between low intelligence poverty

My nearest supermarket is 7 miles away, if I couldn’t drive then I would have to rely on the village shop which is about a mile away, if I had a disability I wouldn’t be able to get there at all. The village shop costs twice as much as a supermarket and doesn’t have a good choice of items.

Yes some people are better off claiming benefits but it depends on their circumstances. I am a single mother of 2 disabled children, I work part time and am worse off than if I didn’t work at all. Many people that are struggling to feed there kids are people who are working but are only earning minimum wage, struggling to pay their rent as they don’t qualify for housing benefits. To survive on benefits or a low wage you need to be able to budget and many people can’t do this.

@Coolieloach
Absolutely, I work with a lady who claims she struggles to afford things, yet she manages to afford alcohol and tabacco. However she "wasn't sure" she'd be able to spare £5 for her kids school trip contribution

I think the benefit system is designed to keep wages low to help employers. If you are a parent, and need work that fits around school drop off and pick up, unless you have sought after skills, you are supermarket retail staff in many areas. Their contracts are built around employing lots of women, on low wages for convenient hours, but with too few hours to qualify for pension rights and the expensive staff benefits that more than 16 hours' work entail. So the taxpayer subsidises Universal Credit to top up earnings to a level where you almost keep a family above water. The taxpayer is funding some companies to keep women's wages down. The big supermarkets are huge culprits in this scam, but TBF they generally treat their staff quite decently.

If you increase benefits, more people will simply not work. I wouldn’t. Why should I bust a gut if I can earn the same sitting at home?

People should cut their cloth accordingly. People might want new and shiny things, but we can’t always have what we want exactly when we want it.

Your poor so your on benefit, so your more likely to have loans which require monthly payments. your more likely to be on pay as you go top up meaters which are more expensive. You may not have transport to get to a supermarket so rely on convenience store which are more expensive.. You may be relient on one income.

Of course a lot can be done on a budget if people have the cooking skills. I know it can because it's my life. But what about the people who don't have the cooking skills? And they do exist. And yes of course there are cooking instructions on things. But knowing that to cook rice you need x amount of water per x amount of rice doesn't actually tell you how to make it tasty. For example, I have a friend. She's a lovely lovely person, but her life circumstances have led her to a place where she's had 7 children with multiple men. Some were put into care. We were talking about meals a while back and she genuinely didn't realise that adding a stock cube to the rice made it tastier and more of a meal. Because the bag only said to use water. Seems like basic common sense to most of us. But clearly not.

Some posters on here seem to want to go back to debtors prisons and workhouses.

A lot of people (normal, hardworking people) have more going out than they have coming in. Thanks to austerity measures. But I suppose they could just feed their children with gruel and 20p loaves 🤷🏼‍♀️

@murmurgam

They're rural areas, the outer suburbs of major cities, small council estates on the outskirts of towns. You might not have come across these places but I promise you they exist.

I'm interested in examples, as part of my job I've done analysis of various populations access to grocery shops and we never found these 'food deserts'

Rural areas, of course, were further away but they also weren't populated by people at risk of food poverty.

I love in Scotland. In a village. As it happens, I’m fine, but my nearest corner shop is a mile and three quarters away down an unlit lane with no pavement, and very steep. My nearest supermarket is 5 miles away, and the only bus within 2 miles of my house is the school bus which I can only catch with special permission, and it doesn’t stop anywhere near the supermarket. When it snowed, the beast from the east, I couldn’t get out of my road for 4 days until the council digger came through. This is life for many people.

It's not about poor cooking techniques or knowledge. It's not about poor money management. It's simply that they don't have enough money. Their costs are too high.

Thank you. This is the truth.

I suspect it feels comforting to say that the reasons are simple and avoidable, such as mobile phones and not knowing how to cook. The reality is very different - one that comes as a hard shock to anyone whose life suddenly deals them a hand that brings them face to face with poverty.