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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask if you’re a justifier and if not - how do you avoid it?

21 replies

GrapevineFires · 21/10/2020 10:49

I asked at the beginning of the week to take a day off next week. We’re not rota based and don’t need significant notice.

I should have just said ‘can I take x day off’.

What I actually said was ‘I need to do a, b and c so can I take x day off, and I’ve finished y project so I have free time...’

It’s the same as the ‘no is a complete sentence’ crowd. I’d like to be someone who says, ‘no I can’t/ don’t feel like it/ don’t want to’. Instead, I will say ‘that sounds great but I can’t because [over explained excuse].

Do you do that - and if you aren’t someone who justifies, have you always been able to be direct or did you learn it?

OP posts:

ZombieOtter · 21/10/2020 10:57

I'm a justifier, though I try hard not to do it. It definitely comes from years of being constantly interrogated, judged and found wanting by my mother.

MondeoFan · 21/10/2020 10:59

I'm a justifier always have been, when I do it I always think why did I say all that, why did I go into detail when I could have just said "no" or "yes"

OrangeLeavesYellowLeaves · 21/10/2020 11:00

Practice in advance.

I am a terrible justifier if I just plunge in.

Elizaaa · 21/10/2020 11:03

I'm not. I didn't learn it, I've always been like this. I also don't have an issue with 'confrontation'.

Brefugee · 21/10/2020 11:04

Some occasions require justification. I say "I'd like x day off, please" and only if the reply is "no" i may consider giving more reasoning.

Of course if the answer is "no" because we've already let everyone else take the day off it may be a problem and require horse trading with colleagues.

Baggingarea · 21/10/2020 11:08

There is evidence that if you justify something people are much more likely to agree to your demands. Ie "can you do x so we can do yz". I guess when it's your right to take a day off though you don't really need to.

OrangeLeavesYellowLeaves · 21/10/2020 11:12

I would ask first and then bring in the justifications in stages when and if I sense a waver.

I try to keep thinking about not oversharing too soon. As that was my default.

Mumoftwo1994 · 21/10/2020 11:16

@GrapevineFires

I asked at the beginning of the week to take a day off next week. We’re not rota based and don’t need significant notice.

I should have just said ‘can I take x day off’.

What I actually said was ‘I need to do a, b and c so can I take x day off, and I’ve finished y project so I have free time...’

Do you do that - and if you aren’t someone who justifies, have you always been able to be direct or did you learn it?

I'm a justifier, even on silly things.

Twiceover · 21/10/2020 11:16

I went on an assertiveness training course about 20 years ago and the trainer said this is v common in women.
E.g if asked can you do a meeting at 10am on Thursday saying I can't because of x,y,z rather than just saying no I can't, I have a clash and suggesting a different time that does work. The person asking just wants to arrange the meeting so they need to know when you CAN do rather than why you can't do a particular time.

I realised I did it a lot and have since tried really hard to avoid it. Like anything it's a habit. I woukd never have thought about it though if it hadn't been pointed out to me.

Youandmeareluckytobeus · 21/10/2020 11:21

I probably am a justifier although I don't over-explain things (because I also value my privacy).
To turn down an invitation, instead of 'well, I would like to but..... ', I would say 'No I can't come/won't be coming because I have other plans/I'm already going out' without saying exactly what my plans are or where I am going. (Obviously I have some people I do tell things to so may say where I am going if I feel like it).

user19423546852 · 21/10/2020 11:25

If you want tactics on how to change things, Google "cci resources assertiveness". They are free modules based on CBT. NHS therapy services often use them.

Assertiveness is the communication style you've described as aspiring to. Assertiveness is not about confidence or aggression.

MereDintofPandiculation · 21/10/2020 11:34

It was DS2 who cured me of it. If I said "I can't, because" he'd then explain how I could arrange thing so I could. It was much easier to say "I don't want to".

I also had help from a boss who didn't believe in mothers working. If I wanted a day off to slob around at home, he'd say "yes", if I mentioned a child's medical appointment the answer would be "no".

mindutopia · 21/10/2020 11:52

I've always been able to be direct. I do think our society teaches women (or anyone who is more vulnerable - dh grew up in a traumatic environment and he is a justifier because he just never felt he could say no and always has to please people - but I do think it's more women than not), anyway, I think society teaches women, especially, to not be direct and assertive.

I come from a culture that is quite direct, so it's probably cultural, but it's also just personality and maybe confidence? I don't feel like my wants and needs require justification (I mean they do, but not to other people). If I need to take a day off, I just say, I need to take a day off. The answer then is either yes or no. I think if you give people too much information, it can become a reason for them to justify saying no. So it's easier not to show your hand. But I do think maybe it does come down to confidence. I think my reasons for things are good ones so I don't need to do any explaining and I am confident enough to expect people will trust my judgment in making that decision.

Dh on the other hand never likes to say no to anyone (even if it means booking himself to be in 2 places at once, it's ridiculous). He is a people pleaser and I think it comes from never wanting to rock the boat, something he learned in childhood. I find it really annoying. I understand on a cognitive level why he does it, but for someone who appreciates directness, people who waffle on and never really say what they want or provide a million qualifications for it drive me a bit nuts. I just want to know what they want, and sometimes it hard to read between the lines to get at what they are actually trying to say without really saying it.

BlueJava · 21/10/2020 12:00

I (f) am not a justifier, I just think no one wants to hear about my crap and what I have to do so I don’t share it.

seayork2020 · 21/10/2020 12:01

I can't say 100% I am not as sometimes I feel justification is needed but most of the time no I don't justify, if I dont have to complicate something I dont

Shemeanswell · 21/10/2020 12:03

I have Aspergers so this is the one problem I don’t have. Also I hate being on the receiving end of it. I don’t care why a person can’t do an activity.

nosswith · 21/10/2020 12:06

I'm not, though occasionally I will add some reason to add to the conversation.

Original poster

GrapevineFires · 21/10/2020 12:07

I really don’t want to do it. It just comes up and later I end up thinking ‘why the hell am I having to explain perfectly reasonable requests or responses’.

It’s interesting about it likely being a female thing. I know it’s not true for everyone, but I think since I was little I’ve always felt I’ve needed to be accountable for everything. My brothers didn’t do this so I guess they didn’t feel the same way.

I will look at that training suggested above.

OP posts:

AnxMummy10 · 21/10/2020 12:12

It took me a long time to learn that being assertive did not mean a confrontation. I think it depends on a situation.

I would ask for leave without an explanation as to what it is for , if I had the leave available and I knew that it isnt a hassle.
I would justify If it was someone close to me and I would feel happy if I gave them a reason.
It's also good to have some rehearsed responses.
If I'm put on the spot - I'll check and let you know/ I will confirm closer to the time/ Will have to see if my dh has anything planned etc.
I was also a huge people pleaser until I learnt that other people get the same result as you without explaining their whole life story/ others are happy to say no and let you down.

ClinkeyMonkey · 21/10/2020 12:34

I think it's guilt and feeling like you're asking for something you might not deserve or be worthy of which causes over justification.

I have 'cured' myself of justifying everything by watching and learning from DP tying himself in knots doing it with his family. They are tricky to deal with and the more he says, the more of an opportunity he gives them to question his reasons and change his mind. They pounce on every perceived weakness. He knows he does it, but can't help it and ends up being walked all over by them. Horrible lot ....

I'm not rude at all, but I have learned that a few firm, but polite, words gets the message across. I've stopped caring or feeling guilty if people shuffle off mumbling about how inconvenient it is. As long as I'm not breaking an arrangement or promise, then I've nothing to feel guilty about.

bakereld · 21/10/2020 12:40

Hi OP.

I've been working on this myself over the past couple of years. I come from a family who hates confrontation, and who tie themselves in knots trying to avoid something they don't want to do etc and keep everyone 'happy'.

It takes effort, and self awareness, and is a gradual process. Everytime you catch yourself justifying why you can or can't do X, see how you can reword it to be more assertive and to the point. Take out the detail. It feels weird and aggressive at first, but you get used to it :)

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