To think that pre 9am and post 5pm meetings are just wrong??!

[Youngatheart00]

I’ve noticed this creep recently, working day extended by up to 90 mins / 2 hours especially as I am in a lockdown area so they pretty much know we can’t be doing much else but be available for work (🙄🙄). They are justifying it as no one is commuting so figure it should be acceptable and ‘there is a lot that is urgent and diaries are full’.

Looking at my diary this week I have 3 days with 8am meetings and 2 days with 5pm and 5:30pm meetings (working hours are 9-5). Also seeing meetings scheduled over lunch, they introduced a protected lunch hour at the start of enforced wfh but that seems to have gone out of the window too.

It seems we’ve entered peak zoom over scheduling and with no change of scenery of f2f interaction by 5pm I’m absolutely spent and just need to get out to walk the dog!!!

It’s a salaried role so there is no overtime pay.

I don’t mind the occasional meeting out of hours if urgent but AIBU to think they are unreasonable, not me, and start pushing back?

Sorry for being dense - I work flexi hours at the moment which basically means I clock on and off as I please as long as I get the job done. Obviously not sure how it works for you but couldn’t you take a long lunch to compensate, or finish early / start late on the days you have OOH meetings? I think it’s good to demonstrate a bit of flexibility at the moment - but that has to work two ways so there’s nothing wrong with expecting it back as well.

I don't disagree but where I work we would just reply to the invitation “sorry I can’t make this meeting as my working hours are 9am to 5pm” and it would either be rescheduled or go ahead without you.

I think that would be frowned upon. And unless I booked it a week in advance, the diary seems pretty committed!! I do want to demonstrate flexibility, but at the moment it’s all one way and I don’t feel like there’s a culture of pushing back! I just feel the company are taking advantage by constantly expecting people to work unpaid hours, and we’ve already been told there will be little or no bonuses this year due to covid.

Just decline the invites, people will stop soon enough.

@Sciurus83 sometimes the most basic suggestions are the best!!!

I suppose I could just decline without explanation. I’m not work shy, but this is amounting to c10 hours unpaid per week.

Sciurus83

"Just decline the invites, people will stop soon enough"

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

That's a good one :)

Just decline , someone has to take a stand. Ok if a 4.00 meeting runs over sometimes but to start one at 5pm is just disrespectful.

Decline and suggest an alternative time if you can. Dogs need walking, and you need exercise (well we all do). A dog should not suffer because someone else cannot plan their time and neither should you.

Definitely decline. Even at. Senior level you can have some control over your diary.

I recently temped at an organisation that had a family-friendly meetings policy. No meetings before 10am or after 3pm - to enable parents to do the school run. People did still work long hours but the flexibility was appreciated.

Unless you are in a profession where progression opportunities are given to those who "go the extra mile", decline anything outside of your standard working day and suggest alternatives (different times, submitting a report instead). Your employer is relying on you putting in extra work - they benefit - you don't.

Decline and propose an alternative time at 9 am.

I have my working hours available in my calendar and on my email. I also block out my lunch in my calendar. I will accept meeting if they are urgent and start before my finish time but not after

I totally see this happening in my workplace too. We are a global company so working across time zones does tend to lend itself to early and late meetings but when we were in the office people respected it a bit more, and for example, there was no blanket expectation that I'd stay or even dial in for a 6:30pm meeting as they all knew I would be picking up DC and then doing bedtime. Now though, late meetings seem to be the norm and whilst I do push back sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one that does this which has resulted in me pushing back less as I don't want my commitment to be questioned at all. I have been starting to block out lunch hour (plus a bit extra) so that I know I have at least 1-2 hours in my day where I'm not sat on a video conf and this does help to reduce the zoom-fatigue we're all feeling! However, regardless of this I'm still totally wrecked (I'm also early pregnant and feeling shite!) by 6:30pm and the last thing I want to do is sit in the same 4 wall for another hour+ on yet another pointless zoom call!

I think it depends on the context and everyone's availability. I work in academia and none of us work 9-5 hours. I also have students who are in China and New Zealand and require all sorts of juggling so I can speak with them. I do have meetings outside 9-5 hours (not every day, but maybe once a week or every other week), but it means I go for a run midday and have time to collect dc from school and then pick work back up in the evening. It's not an issue because I'm used to working flexibly, but I do decline invites when they don't suit my working pattern or I just can't make it work and everyone is fine with that.

Has your workload increased due to covid?

Is the service you provide essential to the service users and will they suffer if you decline the meetings?

In many salaried roles this is normal and people put in extra time to get the job done. I have a friend who works double her salaried hours (she's a doctor).

Is your role at risk of redundancy?

Things to consider before declining, anyway.

Can you block out your calendar? We use microsoft teams and you can set your working hours.
The only reason to have meetings outside 9-5 imo is if you are working with people abroad so have to navigate time differences!

Just decline. Have a series of excuses ready - I need to take kids somewhere, pets have the vets, got a gym class booked, I have an appointment, got a GP phone call etc. When they act surprised, play innocent and say you work til 5? If it's really important, say you supposed to can add the extra time to your lunch and reschedule your imaginary appointment JUST THIS ONCE.

Sounds passive aggressive but I hate businesses like this. We don't contact our employees outside their working hours for anything other than a legitimate emergency and we expect them to take a full hours' lunch break every day. We don't own every second of their time and their jobs are just one aspect of their life.

The work still gets done and our employees are happier for not being expected to routinely pull extra long days - it wasn't always the case, 5 years ago we realised we were all often npt leaving til 45 minutes - an hour after people's working days ended.

We noticed it, made an announcement that says it wouldn't happen any more and when their working day is over, it's over - to the point that if it's 4.45 and they have one last thing to do that would take them to 5.30, we'd rather they took an extra 15 minutes and left early and did the task the next day (very little of what we do is to an immediate deadline so this doesn't affect productivity).

People are happier, they prioritise their work accordingly, we're super flexible when they need us to be and they don't feel like we're expecting them to do a few hours work for free each week. It is one of the things brought up in appraisals most years as a positive to working for us.

Yeah I think its all very well to be po-faced about "I never work past 5pm".

That might be OK in, say, local government. It just wouldn't fly in a lot of sectors.

In jobs where you are required to satisfy clients needs, and when, say, the client is in a different time zone from you it would be totally unreasonable to insist on clocking off at 5pm.

I've got several US clients and if I refused to answer their emails after 5pm, which is noon for them, they would basically be paying me for three hours' work a day. I'd be fired, and rightly so.

I am in a relatively senior role, not senior enough to lead the pack, but senior enough to need to be seen to go the extra mile!!

The role is in insurance, so not life and death, although covid has had a huge negative impact on our business.

Don’t think I’m at risk of redundancy. My stress is spiking because I work flat out and extra and it’s the constant extra tipping me over the edge. It’s not the hours per se, it’s that I’m just trapped in a tiny home office and being on zoom most of the day is meaning I often have to work later into the evening (post dog walk) to get stuff done

I need to take control of my diary which should be simple but I’m such a people pleaser I hate saying no.

Honestly op, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Say no now

Understand re international meetings, these aren’t international they are U.K. based. They are simply because there are SO MANY internal meetings (and I’m involved in so much) the diary space just isn’t there. So it’s 5:30pm or a week next Thursday.

I work in quite a demanding role in professional services, and this would be quite frowned upon as a regular occurrence. Some people (including very senior ones) block out their diaries before and after certain times so that they are available from 8.30 but not after 5 or vice versa. Could you try that? I guess it would only work if people actually check availability before booking a call, most people are pretty good with that in our company. Any calls you do have then would be by exception as they can't expect you to be available automatically at a time when your diary shows you as unavailable

All these people saying decline, you'll be first in line for redundancy if you do trust me.
Is it fair ? Hell no. But not a lot is at the moment .
I'd speak to someone about getting the time back to do your necessary things like looking after the dogs and yourself

Can your colleagues see your outlook calendar? If so then set up regular busy times eg lunch, 8-9 so they won’t try to book you then.

However, do you really only work 9-5 with an hour for lunch? I have never had a job that works those hours.

it is really annoying, OP and I am strongly managing this OUT of our calendars, but the creep is certainly happening. I am using the mantra that for parents, especially, they need to be able to maintain schedules as much as possible.

However, as salaried, we are expected to be available to the extent we can/must, and to be mature enough to manage our calendars. The 10-5 hours are the norm, but surely you have some flexibility? Adjust the work day when you can, to reflect your early start/finish.