To ask how much you think a family of 4 need to earn ...

[Jesscarbqueen87]

Minimum for a decent standard of living.

Rent £600
Power £110
Other bills £140
Food £600
Travel: £600
Childcare: £1000
Savings: £400
Treats: £400
Clothes: £200
Clubs etc: £200

So that's £4250 a month I reckon so about 72k before tax??

I wish

@Pumpkinnose

I honestly think that 2 should be a maximum if you’re not financially self sufficient. And to expect people to consider the quality of life they can offer their kids, one factor of which definitely is finance.

But they wouldn't let me return one of the twins for a refund

@Pumpkinnose so how much should one earn to have 2?

If tackling overpopulation why 2? The UK birth rate is 1.65 I believe.

Well for my second pregnancy I knew twins was a possibility. Same logic applies.

@Pumpkinnose

Well for my second pregnancy I knew twins was a possibility. Same logic applies.

So actually only the really rich should have more than 1 as there's always a risk of higher multiples.

In fact given you could have triplets the first time, we should just stop the poor having babies altogether.

And what of you're self sufficient then lose your job and no longer are? So no babies unless you can afford to raise them without working

That'll solve the population problem

Let me be clear, I’d never advocate limits being government policy. Only kids suffer and believe it or not I’m not a Tory voter.

But as an individual making my own decisions, having an eye on overpopulation and aboliyu to provide well for my kids is of primary importance to me. I don’t ever want to be in a position to need government support. It would be selfish of me.

You earlier post wasn't just from an individual perspective though was it. Hence my reply.

And yet sometimes life happens, you think you won't need it and then you do. Would it be less selfish to refuse it but not then be able to provide for my kids, or take it and provide for them?

@SleepingStandingUp well actually I was made redundant 3 months after returning from maternity leave (outright sex discrimination but that’s for another time). But I did have sufficient savings because I wouldn’t have kids without that cushion so I was ok. And I had to take any job, which I did, full time. So to me, each time I have kids o think what if the worst happens. And that FOR ME stopped me having many more.

We ll soon be a family of 5 (twins on the way). Household income combined around £70k both working full time. We'll be paying around £1200 a month in childcare. We can just about manage financially for 3 years until twins start school but there will be no luxuries in that time and If say the boiler breaks we are buggered!. Then once the childcare bill is out of the way we will have more than enough on that wage for a decent standard of living - we live in nice area, we pay a mortgage on an ok size house, we'd be able to have a family holiday.

But we don't live a frivolous lifestyle - we have one big standard family car, we don't have expensive tastes or expensive (any) hobbies.
It really depends on what is important to you and what you believe you "need" to have a good standard of living - some people consider that to be 2 BMWs on the drive, a 5 bed detached house and at least 2 foreign holidays per year somewhere expensive. Other people are happy with a lot less? 🤷‍♀️

Our combined income is around £75-80k (I'm part time) and we have a great life day to day - amazing house, good cars, nice clothes but we have no money for anything else at all at the moment. Childcare costs are a big deal for our quality of life.

Depends on where you live, whether you have had to take out a large mortgage in order to buy, if you have debt and if kids are nursery age. About 150k maybe.

[quote Pumpkinnose]@SleepingStandingUp well actually I was made redundant 3 months after returning from maternity leave (outright sex discrimination but that’s for another time). But I did have sufficient savings because I wouldn’t have kids without that cushion so I was ok. And I had to take any job, which I did, full time. So to me, each time I have kids o think what if the worst happens. And that FOR ME stopped me having many more.[/quote]
So of no one can have a child unless they can fully support them on their own without a job for say at least 5 years, it's back to only the rich should have babies
At least own what you think

And I had to take any job, which I did, full time. So to me and either you had to take any job and then rely on your savings to cover the childcare bill because minimum wage won't cover it, or you had to take any reasonably well paid job. Which goes back to the previous point

@ivfbeenbusy congratulations on the twins, you're so blessed
That's the word o use when they scream a lot in unison and are generally teething dribbling needy machines 🤣🤣

We make 17k between the two of us right now. We can cover bills and a basic standard of living but everything is tightly budgeted, including food and fuel. Our two kids are currently very young so will need to increase our wages soon as they only get more expensive as they get older.

We earn just under 30k. Have a low rent, I don’t drive so one car and we have three kids. We are happy and comfortable and don’t consider ourselves poverty stricken lol

At least own what you think

Yep!

Yup I will own what I think.

If I wasn’t a high earner I wouldn’t have had more than one kid. I might not have had even one if it had meant I’d need to rely on the state.

Am I happy to pay a huge amount of taxes (I would pay more) to support kids whose parents don’t agree with me? Yes, no kid should suffer or be in poverty. But I have taken personal responsibility for my kids, including their number and what I can offer them financially and time wise . Being a mum is a privilege.

We live in zone 1 London ! With a income of 54k a year and 760 in benefits ( disabled child) have 1 child and trying for number 2 and financially we are absolutely fine
Decent food / roof / transport / Xmas / birthdays and holidays etc
We never really do without anything.

54k is before tax I should add.

But very few people can afford to live for very long without working or using benefits. So do you honestly think that only people with tens of thousands in the bank should have even one child because there's always a risk of not being able to work for some reason or your job prospects going down the pan

You talk about how you worked any job full-time but I'm curious how you'd cover full time childcare on minimum wage?

I never said it was minimum wage job. I applied for everything going in my field. I got a job relatively easily but it was full time when I’d have preferred part time.

This thread is about having 4 kids. I think that’s a lot. For environmental reasons for one. But ultimately I couldn’t countenance that many if it meant I couldn’t comfortably financially support them in the event of something going wrong or make them go without even if things are ok. I have always been financially independent.

4 kids is not just the cost of paying for them but also impact of 4 lots of maternity leaves (both earnings wise and impact on career) subject of course to multiple births.

I guess all I’m putting forward is that working out if you can afford it isn’t just a case of oh my rents this much, childcare this much so it’s fine.... Where’s the cushion when things go unexpectedly wrong which this pandemic is showing. If it’s touch and go already how the numbers balance, is another kid a great plan?

everything going in my field isn't the same as I had to take any job which is my point. So you can have kids because you could afford to support them on your savings until a job that pays over Xk came up. Which is great obviously, not slating you for that. But if you think that's it the basic criteria by which people should decide if they should have children, then it's back to kids only for the rich. A belief you're entitled to btw, but one you seem reluctant to own

And the thread says a family of 4, not 4 children, unless they're raising themselves. They're was talk of3 kids as in you plan for 2 then number two splits in half

This thread is about having 4 kids

Is it? I thought it was about a family of four. I assume families generally include parents?